Sparks effect

[whole diary]

[willc]

Some very interesting stuff about the potential for a rolling rail electrification programme in the light of ever-rising oil prices in the June issue of Modern Railways.

Boiling it down, according to studies done both by an independent consultant and by Network Rail, the numbers now appear to stack up very well for wiring up a number of services, especially with the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet replacement on the horizon, including:
London-Reading-Oxford
London-Swindon-Bath-Bristol and Swindon-Bristol Parkway-Cardiff-Swansea
London-Reading-Westbury-Taunton-Exeter-Paignton and Plymouth.
Birmingham-Bristol, Bristol-Taunton, Oxford-Birmingham and Reading-Basingstoke  as part of an electrification scheme for CrossCountry - which would get dual-voltage 25kv overhead/750v DC^▸ (Direct Current) third rail trains.
Salisbury-Basingstoke and Salisbury-Southampton and Eastleigh are also regarded as viable for more third rail electrification, as is Reading-Redhill.
Suggested possible long-term spin-offs, as a result of some of the above work making them more cost-effective, are Bristol-Westbury-Salisbury and Swindon-Gloucester-Chepstow-Newport, also the Chiltern Line.

The consultant suggested electro-diesel hybrids (a la InterCity Express Project) for the Cotswold Line, making the switchover at Oxford, though if the CrossCountry work got the go-ahead it would surely be worth looking at wiring the Cotswold Line as an electric diversionary route in case of closures via Banbury, linking into the Bristol-Birmingham scheme at Worcester - also the short gaps between stations on the route make it ideal for the rapid acceleration characteristics of electric trains.

Modern Railways' editorial suggests hooking up a big powerful diesel for unwired stretches like Plymouth-Penzance, rather than a bi-mode train dragging around an unused diesel engine for the rest of the journey.

[eightf48544]

Having also read June Modern Railways I totally agree with their summation of the situation now is time to start a wholesale rolling electrification.

Consider the circumstances, high oil prices which are only likely to go higher, economy slowing down so that an electrification programme would create jobs and at the same time provide the transport needed when we have to stop using our cars so much. Sorry I'm a Keysian economist.

As for electricy supplies Roger Ford calculated that at the moment the railways use about half a base load station so the extra would probably make it the other half and depending on how extensive, maybe a bit more.

As I said in previous post I was taught at school that we are siting on 200 years worth of coal  so we are going to have to bite the bullet and do the research into clean coal and carbon capture. More work for our scientists and engineers.

There was a piece in the Gurdian on Saturday which suggests there might be a way of capturing CO2 on membranes and concentrating it for storage.

For those of you in the West who don't know what a modern EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) is about next time you're in town do Padd Hayes (on an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)!) on the Heathrow Connect and contrast the 360 with your clapped out DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). You'd be clamouring for wires.

[Btline]

This must happen. But with the following additions:

-to Penzance and maybe Newquay
-Walsall to Rugely
-Snow Hill Lines
-to Aberdeen from ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line)/XCL
-to Glasgow from ECML
-upgrade from Leeds to Shipton (currently the line is electrified but HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are required as the power is too weak for 225s beyond Leeds!)
-Oxted to Ukfield
-to Shrewsbury from B'ham
-to Greenford from Paddington
-rest of MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about)
-North Wales branch of WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)
-all other parts of XCML
-TransWilts (for diversion - also benefiting locals)

[devon_metro]

Electrification to Torbay would be good, it deserves a good service to London considering it has a similar population to Plymouth.

[Chris2]

This must happen. But with the following additions:

-to Penzance and maybe Newquay
-Walsall to Rugely
-Snow Hill Lines
-to Aberdeen from ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line)/XCL
-to Glasgow from ECML
-upgrade from Leeds to Shipton (currently the line is electrified but HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are required as the power is too weak for 225s beyond Leeds!)
-Oxted to Ukfield
-to Shrewsbury from B'ham
-to Greenford from Paddington
-rest of MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about)
-North Wales branch of WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)
-all other parts of XCML
-TransWilts (for diversion - also benefiting locals)

Newquay should definitely get electrified, also The Barnstaple and Exmouth branch lines should be electrified. The Modern EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) units are superb. If the replacement HST is anything like a modern electric train it would be a welcome addition to our rail network.

[willc]

Several other routes around the country are suggested by the studies as viable for electrification, but I omitted them for the sake of simplicity and because this is mainly an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) forum.

But you can forget Cornish and Devon branch lines - except perhaps Exmouth - even the Norwegians, who have dirt-cheap hydro-electric power coming out of their ears, have never been able to make a financial case for wiring their lightly-used lines in the north and east of the country.

[eightf48544]

Several other routes around the country are suggested by the studies as viable for electrification, but I omitted them for the sake of simplicity and because this is mainly an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) forum.

But you can forget Cornish and Devon branch lines - except perhaps Exmouth - even the Norwegians, who have dirt-cheap hydro-electric power coming out of their ears, have never been able to make a financial case for wiring their lightly-used lines in the north and east of the country.

Agree other lines outside of FGW territory will need electrifying.

An interesting question. If one assummes that South of the SW mainline will be third rail where are the change over stations?
 eg. Reading or Basingstoke, Salisbury or Westbury, If Salisbury in Westbury direction Salisbury or Exeter (Central or St Davids?).

My view would be Reading with third rail through station to enable services from Basingstoke and Wokingham to terminate in main station or run through also as  diversion third rail route  from Waterloo to Basingstoke.

Salisbury lines from east third rail and to North and West 25KV. Although you could argue for a third rail route from Waterloo to Exeter, modern dual voltage units are not that much more expensive than single voltage units, particulaly 3rd rail versions which have to have an inverter for AC traction motors which is not needed for 25KV units.


Don't foget the Norwegians also have a surplus of oil and gas so until that runs out they probably won't electrify their branches but when it does?

[Btline]

Hydrogen powered trains are the future as well (only water is produced when burnt).

Just need "clean" electricity to electrolyse water to produce the hydrogen!

[tom-langley]

Agreed electrification is a must.

However the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) has a problem in terms of the severn tunnel, it is too small to get OHLE equipment into.

I have always maintained that the crossrail electridfication should help encourage the further electrifcation of the GWML.

[dog box]

your gonna need a lot of wind turbines to power this little lot......because nuclear power is a nasty word in this country

[swlines]

Agree other lines outside of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) territory will need electrifying.

An interesting question. If one assummes that South of the SW mainline will be third rail where are the change over stations?
 eg. Reading or Basingstoke, Salisbury or Westbury, If Salisbury in Westbury direction Salisbury or Exeter (Central or St Davids?).

My view would be Reading with third rail through station to enable services from Basingstoke and Wokingham to terminate in main station or run through also as  diversion third rail route  from Waterloo to Basingstoke.

Salisbury lines from east third rail and to North and West 25KV. Although you could argue for a third rail route from Waterloo to Exeter, modern dual voltage units are not that much more expensive than single voltage units, particulaly 3rd rail versions which have to have an inverter for AC traction motors which is not needed for 25KV units.

To comment on this as this is my particular area of zero expertise, the plan as it stands from what I understand is to electrify everything on the South West Trains network except west of Salisbury (I would guess in practice the electrification would probably extend to Wilton Jn).

Electrifying Reading brings the problem that is long and short swing link bogies being required in order to traverse third rail lines - the majority of FGW HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) being LSL^‡(resolve). The journey time from Waterloo to Basingstoke via Reading would be too limiting to use as a diversion - a journey time of some 1h50+ compared to London to Basingstoke via Addlestone which is 1h20+. Other diversionary routes are already available via Effingham Junction, Worplesdon, Haslemere, Barnes, Richmond, Havant, Fareham, etc. A key diversionary route would be to electrify the Laverstock loop as part of a WoE electrification scheme.

I don't think Salisbury - Exeter will ever be electrified to 25kV, third rail perhaps, but only as far as Yeovil.

[Btline]

A tidal barrage on the Severn (and also on other Rivers) would:

*produce clean power for water electrolysis;

*provide a high speed rail link into Wales;

*prevent the Severn floodplain from Climate Change flood surges.

Excellent- who wants to start work now?

[devon_metro]

A tidal barrage on the Severn (and also on other Rivers) would:

*produce clean power for water electrolysis;

*provide a high speed rail link into Wales;

*prevent the Severn floodplain from Climate Change flood surges.

Excellent- who wants to start work now?

I don't really support a barrage, the Severn holds a lot of wildlife etc.

Besides, I want to surf the barrage 

[Btline]

It has been suggested that a new wildlife habitat would be created behind the barrage.

And to be honest (and don't get me wrong - I am a supporter of wildlife/green) I think it is a worth while sacrifice.

And as for surfing - surely Newquay is more convenient for you (esp with the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train))!

[Lee]

It has been suggested that a new wildlife habitat would be created behind the barrage.

And to be honest (and don't get me wrong - I am a supporter of wildlife/green) I think it is a worth while sacrifice.

And as for surfing - surely Newquay is more convenient for you (esp with the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train))!

The Bristol Port Company has said the project would be a major impediment on its future plans for a new deep water container terminal at Bristol (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=20774331&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922