Sparks effect

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

With the Valleys due to having new stock "eventually", i say wire them in there entirety so they can take electric stock.

[John R]

With the core routes having up to 6 tph it starts to look possible, but too much of the mileage will still be only 2tph max, so then you face having a mix of electric and diesel stock. However, anythings possible on the valleys.

[woody]

Electrification to Torbay would be good, it deserves a good service to London considering it has a similar population to Plymouth.

The following are mid 2005 estimates for population change for local authorities in the United Kingdom;taken from http://www.swenvo.org.uk/environment/population.asp#southwest.
  As you will see the population of Torbay UA is estimated at 132,800 while Plymouth UA is 246,000,you would have to add the entire population of Teignbridge(124,500) to that to get to Plymouth population and of course with Plymouths dormitory population from towns like Saltash/Torpoint etc taking that 246,000 to over 300,000.Hardly "similar".
 

[devon_metro]

Not what I read anyway 

[willc]

As I noted when I started the thread, wiring to Paignton IS included in the Network Rail study.

The map published by Modern Railways clearly shows the Severn Tunnel route electrified. Clearances may be an issue, but an alternative to conventional catenary is an overhead conductor rail. There was a test in Austria a few years ago using a 2km section in a tunnel, where trains were run up to 260kmh. The swing bridge at Trowse in Norwich uses a solid rail for its 25kv supply.

As for Cardiff Valleys, Birmingham Snow Hill routes, and diesel-operated suburban routes around Leeds and Manchester, Network Rail's head of enhancement engineering told a conference discussion which the Modern Railways piece is based on that "once you've done some, then you can do the rest", eg once you've wired to Bristol, then going to Cardiff and Swansea and Plymouth becomes a more clear-cut proposition - and if you've done the really complex stuff anyway, eg Cardiff Central station, then the case for the other routes using that point is obviously strengthened.

In that respect, the fact that the approaches to Paddington are already wired for Heathrow Express, plus Crossrail extending that to Maidenhead (or even Reading) is a help in pressing the case for going further west.

[woody]

Not what I read anyway 

As early as 1836 Isambard Kingdom Brunnel surveyed a rail route between Exeter and Plymouth,crossing the Teign and Dart rivers and through the South Hams to Plymouth but Devon people at the time were not interested unfortunately.Had this happened Devons 3 main urban areas would have all been connected directly by one main line and probably a much faster one as well  benefitting all rail users west of Exeter as well as putting Torbay directly on the Paddington/Penzance route.Its a pity a new section of main line could not be created today by linking Newton Abbot/Torbay/Totnes.

[devon_metro]

Not what I read anyway 

As early as 1836 Isambard Kingdom Brunnel surveyed a rail route between Exeter and Plymouth,crossing the Teign and Dart rivers and through the South Hams to Plymouth but Devon people at the time were not interested unfortunately.Had this happened Devons 3 main urban areas would have all been connected directly by one main line and probably a much faster one as well  benefitting all rail users west of Exeter as well as putting Torbay directly on the Paddington/Penzance route.Its a pity a new section of main line could not be created today by linking Newton Abbot/Torbay/Totnes.

Certainly would be good - and very beneficial at that. Could then run a shuttle service from Newton Abbot - Plymouth via the normal route which doesn't have overly inspiring figures!!!

Only problem I can see if Paignton LC^▸ (Level Crossing) which would be down fairly often, causing chaos!

[stebbo]

Just wait till the old salt water spray gets at the catenary around Dawlish - then you'll get a sparks effect. I'm GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) born and bred but the old Southern route via Okehampton might have come into its own now  - as indeed might the old route round the back from Exeter to Newton Abbot via Trusham

[woody]

Just wait till the old salt water spray gets at the catenary around Dawlish - then you'll get a sparks effect. I'm GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) born and bred but the old Southern route via Okehampton might have come into its own now  - as indeed might the old route round the back from Exeter to Newton Abbot via Trusham

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and had we known at the time of the "Beeching" report what we now know the Southern railway route via Tavistock/Okhampton might well have survived and is still probably the only realistic option for an alternative to the current Great Western route.I understand a study just conducted by ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) has said that the re-opening the former Southern route in its entirety is "viable".Of course whether the government who hold the purse strings agree with that which I doubt, only time will tell.
 

[Lee]

Link regarding the ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) study.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2421.msg18087#msg18087

[Btline]

Good news for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) line. The electrification in B'ham is being extended 1 stop south from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove!

Remember, every little helps. Next it will be to Worcester, then Gloucester, then Bristol ......

[stebbo]

"Good news for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) line. The electrification in B'ham is being extended 1 stop south from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove!

Remember, every little helps. Next it will be to Worcester, then Gloucester, then Bristol ......"

And perhaps to Hereford, please, please - otherwise we'll be forgotten

[swlines]

Good news for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) line. The electrification in B'ham is being extended 1 stop south from Barnt Green to Bromsgrove!

Remember, every little helps. Next it will be to Worcester, then Gloucester, then Bristol ......

Except CrossCountry don't operate electric trains ...

[Btline]

THe answer is IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)/HST2!

I take it the Voyagers will be scrapped/put off lease and new HST2/IEP trains will replace them. The idea is that they will be electric.

I mean the Voyagers have been a disaster. Halving capacity on certain routes (and halving capacity on commuter trains) should not have been allowed, and should be rectified asap!

They could be switched to secondary lines such as North to South Wales. Or preferably burnt!

[G.Uard]

Electrification to Torbay would be good, it deserves a good service to London considering it has a similar population to Plymouth.

Far be it for me to argue, but I had always believed the population of Plymouth to be approaching 240,000, whilst that of Torbay is around the 130,000 mark.  http://www.torbay.gov.uk/appendix-b-key_statistics_for_torbay_apr.pdf


That said, the importance of Torbay as a holiday destination could well  be justification for continuing the wires from Newton Abbot.