Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

On the face of it, pretty poor by the railway.

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News - Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to 'crawl off' train
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq5dqxzggleo

[ChrisB]

David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.

Wrong board - this was LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) at KGX

[TaplowGreen]

David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.

Wrong board - this was LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) at KGX

Apologies yes perhaps a moderator could move it to "The Wider Picture"

[grahame]

David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.

Wrong board - this was LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) at KGX

Apologies yes perhaps a moderator could move it to "The Wider Picture"

Moderators very laid back ... but, yes, I will move it to "Wider picture, UK^▸ (United Kingdom)"

[Ralph Ayres]

Various references in the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) item to a legal requirement for level boarding (at all stations however remote, on all trains?) by 2020. However worthy an aim, that was never going to happen so disability campaigners were either hopelessly naive or wilfully misled.  Apart from the impracticality of delivering it to that timescale, the cost would have crippled the rail network.  No point having level boarding if there are no trains to board!

[CyclingSid]

Kings Cross wouldn't have struck me as remote.

[ChrisB]

Turns out that Tanni had booked her own assistance on an earlier service that she missed.

Question then is whether she cancelled / updated that booking as if it wasn't, the staff at KGX would have turned up for the service that she missed, why wouldn't they?

[Clan Line]

Turns out that Tanni had booked her own assistance on an earlier service that she missed.

Question then is whether she cancelled / updated that booking as if it wasn't, the staff at KGX would have turned up for the service that she missed, why wouldn't they?

There are lots of entirely reasonable questions to be asked about this incident - the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) couldn't even put out the same details on TV/Radio/website. The longest report on TV didn't even mention which train she was booked on. The "cleaners" seemed to come in for some (unwarranted ?) criticism - did they "refuse" to help or was an assumption made that they weren't "insured" to help ? Another stick to beat the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) with ?

I'm afraid that this tale comes across a bit like the "rammed" incident ......................

[ChrisB]

Strangely, Dame TGT 'forgot' to mention her personal booking while live tweeting as it happened on Monday evening. Strange that.
She only deemed it worth mentioning during her BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Radio 4 Today interview on Tuesday.
Strange that.

[TaplowGreen]

Well, there's a thing.....a full and unequivocal apology to Baroness TGT from the noble Lord Hendy without an ounce of the cynicism on display from some members here.

Is this what is meant by "peer to peer"?

 

[JayMac]

Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here, and on social media.

Passengers with disabilities DO NOT have to book assistance. Passengers with disabilities are allowed to change their travel plans. Network Rail and National Rail promote 'turn up and go' assistance for people with disabilities, alongside the book in advance Passenger Assist.

This isn't the first time Baroness Grey-Thompson has had to crawl of a train at a major London terminus. She's experienced a similar situation at London Euston in the past. And just last week she was refused travel at Aylesbury as staff there said they weren't trained to use the supplied ramps.

As a peer and a public figure she has a voice that is listened too. Too many people with disabilities aren't so fortunate and don't get apologies from chief execs, chairpersons, and ministers when they are let down by the railways.

To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.

On a few occasions I've booked assistance and requested 'turn up and go' help as part of mystery shopping scenarios with TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) and Network Rail. Only one of those 'shops' was faultless.

[BahnCard100]

Thank you JayMac, whole-heartedly agree. In the case of the Baroness she was perfectly entitled to change her plans, she was assisted on to the London train at Leeds, and, in my own experience, assistance would/should have been arranged at the other end.

[Fourbee]

...so the situation AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) from this thread was booked assistance was for the previous train, so the train that arrived at King's Cross was TUAG from Leeds; so the responsibility is on Leeds' station staff to contact King's Cross in this scenario?

[Clan Line]

Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here..........................

To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that she was "in the wrong" - just that the story seemed to be different on each retelling. Is no one allowed to ask what actually happened without being accused of some sort of "ism" ?

Yes, the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) concerned could have done better, but from the reported story the Baroness could have acted somewhat more pragmatically, rather than feeding a story to the media knowing what OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website) headlines they would make of it with her name attached to it. The result has now been, to some extent, counter productive.

My daughter is disabled, though not to the same physical extent as the Baroness, and I have heard plenty of tales about the problem she hits on the railways - so I have no need to try "travelling in a wheelchair for a few months" !  I could be somewhat flippant and say that at least the Baroness had a seat on the train - my daughter now has to plan her journey from Kent to Wiltshire with trains that give her the best chance of her getting a seat at all. Three TOCs and not a seat reservation between them !   Have you tried asking someone in a priority seat to move, when you don't look disabled ??

The Baroness will undoubtedly receive fullsome apologies from everyman and their dog, every time she travels by train the TOC will be alerted to her every movement and all will be well...............but will there be any difference for the millions of other disabled passengers struggling on the railways ................NO !

[ChrisB]

...so the situation AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) from this thread was booked assistance was for the previous train, so the train that arrived at King's Cross was TUAG from Leeds; so the responsibility is on Leeds' station staff to contact King's Cross in this scenario?

Correct. And I suspect Leeds did call KGX to say that there was an assist required off that 1945 train. What the traveller subsequently said the morning after on Radio 4's Today programme was that she had booked assistance herself on the previous train - the 1915.

What isn't clear is whether KGX were told that she had effectively moved her assist from one train to the later train. Did the staff at Leeds know about that earlier booking? It would be easy for the staff at KGX to get confused about which service required assistance.

It is that part of the assist function that obviously needs work behind the scenes. David Horne is looking at that, and has promised to make public the findings & what might be done. It is rail-wide, so may unfortunately take time to implement across the rail network.

Finally, the problem as I see it seems to involve mainly London Terminii stations generally run by Network Rail, not the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company). There are various jobs at those stations being done by TOC staff & some by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) staff - and it looks as though the definition isn't as good as it should be?

Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here..........................

To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that she was "in the wrong" - just that the story seemed to be different on each retelling. Is no one allowed to ask what actually happened without being accused of some sort of "ism" ?

Yup, agree - and I've been a wheelchair user now for well over a year, and can definitely understand & know procedures as I've made it my pasttime to find out & Try & improve 'our' lot when travelling on the rails. I can (touch wood) say that I have *never* had any problems with Passenger Assist or TUAG. However, my journeys in & out of mainline Network Rail stations are limited in number so far.

I am working on several accessibility passenger groups on different TOCs and meetings do produce results. Still more work to do, but I suspect the problems are not as widespread as thought.