Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

[TaplowGreen]

Another begins.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj9le7vdw91o

[ChrisB]

See the strike thread already in existence

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, ChrisB: topics now merged. 

[TaplowGreen]

I thought that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had settled up until the current pay round?

Yes I think so.  And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement?

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

[IndustryInsider]

I thought that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had settled up until the current pay round?

Yes I think so.  And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement?

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

My reasonableness test was based on average wage growth in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) being 5.7% for 2024, so 4.5% sounds reasonable to me.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

However, deals always lag behind inflation, so you would expect that average figure to drop off quite quickly going into 2025, so now is the time to push your case.

[TaplowGreen]

I thought that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had settled up until the current pay round?

Yes I think so.  And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement?

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

My reasonableness test was based on average wage growth in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) being 5.7% for 2024, so 4.5% sounds reasonable to me.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

However, deals always lag behind inflation, so you would expect that average figure to drop off quite quickly going into 2025, so now is the time to push your case.

Perfectly reasonable for a Union to push its case.

[Bob_Blakey]

SWTSMBO^▸ (She Who Thinks She Must Be Obeyed (affectionate term for wife or female partner)) and I are booked to travel with LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) from WKF to KGX on Sunday 20th October so one hopes that this dispute can be resolved before then.

[ellendune]

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

It seems to me that the attitude of the last government to treat publicly funded workers, whether they were doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers or train drivers was tpo treat them as slaves rather than employees, with the slave master having absolute power over them.  This led to the attitude that they should be grateful for the little scraps that they were given.  Unions, they regarded (somewhat like some of them regarded anything with the word European in its title) as inherently evil and to be resisted and to be sidelined if at all possible and if negotiations were tolerated they should be at arms length and negotiators given no leeway to negotiate.  This is the absolute antithesis of the principles espoused by James Timpson (now prisons minster). 

This slavery view is rather at odds with the the free market idea.  The market dictates that if the terms are too bad people leave and that is at least partly why there are shortages of doctors and nurses in the health service though I am not sure whether it relates to rail staff. 

This is the sort of attitude that was prevalent in the 19th century not the 21st.  I recall that following some accident in 19th century (Mexborough?) the driver and fireman were immediate arrested on a charge of manslaughter.  The newly formed ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) hired a top barrister who fought their case and they were found not guilty and the company rightly blamed.  This probably informs the culture of the organisation even now. 

[trainbuff]

I thought that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had settled up until the current pay round?

Yes I think so.  And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement?

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

Settled for 2022-2023 at 5%, half inflation. 4.75% for last year was less than inflation and 4.5% this year is double this years inflation but remember no pay rise at all in 2020 or 2021. Set against this it seems a reasonable ask. Especially as big bankers have had a £4.25 bn reduction in tax!

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

[Electric train]

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

It seems to me that the attitude of the last government to treat publicly funded workers, whether they were doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers or train drivers was tpo treat them as slaves rather than employees, with the slave master having absolute power over them.  This led to the attitude that they should be grateful for the little scraps that they were given.  Unions, they regarded (somewhat like some of them regarded anything with the word European in its title) as inherently evil and to be resisted and to be sidelined if at all possible and if negotiations were tolerated they should be at arms length and negotiators given no leeway to negotiate.  This is the absolute antithesis of the principles espoused by James Timpson (now prisons minster). 

This slavery view is rather at odds with the the free market idea.  The market dictates that if the terms are too bad people leave and that is at least partly why there are shortages of doctors and nurses in the health service though I am not sure whether it relates to rail staff. 

This is the sort of attitude that was prevalent in the 19th century not the 21st.  I recall that following some accident in 19th century (Mexborough?) the driver and fireman were immediate arrested on a charge of manslaughter.  The newly formed ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) hired a top barrister who fought their case and they were found not guilty and the company rightly blamed.  This probably informs the culture of the organisation even now. 

There is a lot of pent up frustration in the public sector on how we were treated by the last Government, Granted most in the public sector were not furloughed but we were expected to work through the pandemic lockdowns for most there was not the work from home option.

Then when things returned to some semblance of normal the Governments expenditure on the furlough screams and the running of a normal full train service timetable all of a sudden was the public sector workers fault, so no pay rise.

Oh and while the public sector were working at risk, contracting covid while at work and dieing .......... and the Government were having parties

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) public sectors Teachers and schools, Railways, NHS, Defence, Police, Courts, local Authorities .... etc have been drastically underfunded (in real terms) for over a decade to fund what ..........the promise of tax cuts

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Laws on union strike threshold set to be scrapped

Laws stipulating what proportion of union members have to vote for strike action in order for it to be legal are set to be scrapped.

It is understood that the government intends to go ahead with its pledge to repeal the Trade Union Act as part of its wider shake-up of workers' rights.

There are reports the bill will be tabled by mid-October.

Senior Tories have been critical of Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer over recent pay offers to train drivers and junior doctors, accusing him of being beholden to the unions.
...

[IndustryInsider]

A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:

“Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those onboard and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect.

“Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members. I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes

[grahame]

A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes

Yep - made the Independent too ..

From The Independent

Former Tory rail minister admits failure on reform – and praises train staff and unions

Huw Merriman: ‘These people work hard and should be shown more respect’

[TaplowGreen]

A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:

“Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those onboard and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect.

“Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members. I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes

Good for him. I don't find it overly surprising.

It's perfectly possible, mature and shows integrity and decency to have a good working relationship and mutual respect between those who may profoundly disagree.

Those are the sorts of qualities we should value in our politicians over and above any ideological considerations.

Hopefully the Bruvvers Mick will publicly reciprocate and show that they have the same qualities.