Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

It appears that we haven't yet recorded that ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) has announced a further week of overtime/rest day working ban from 7 to 12 August.

[PhilWakely]

Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.

Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution?

Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel?

I think the main problems here are that the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) don't really care as they receive the same 'management fee' from the Government regardless of the number of services being run and the Government is hell bent on destroying the Unions. So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.

[TaplowGreen]

Happy to be corrected, but I can't recall Mr Mayor being similarly "extremely concerned" over the numerous other events to which people have struggled to get to as a result of the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)/ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) Industrial action?

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/mayor-of-london-extremely-concerned-over-brighton-pride-train-disruptions/

[IndustryInsider]

So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.

Indeed.  Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI^▸ (as I understand it).

I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down.  Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run.

[TaplowGreen]

So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay.

Indeed.  Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI^▸ (as I understand it).

I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down.  Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run.

I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything.

You're right about the current level of action and the Unions are on the back foot - as it stands causing inconvenience at worst and can easily be rode out by the Government - virtually indefinitely - after all it's over a year already.

I would like to think that, from somewhere, a few more quid will be found to add to the pay rise on offer (although Bruvver Mick is now saying that the strike isn't about pay), and combined with the lower number of closures and some level of future assurances about cuts this will be enough for him to save face and call it off - similarly ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about)

I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

[IndustryInsider]

I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 

Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.

[TaplowGreen]

I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 

Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.

That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway.

One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that?

Personally I'd lock both sides in the room with nothing more than an occasional visit from a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) catering trolley for sustenance ("sorry, no sandwiches, they didn't get loaded") - if that doesn't produce results, I don't know what would!!! 

[grahame]

I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything.

There are 9 quoted in the consultation as selling over 200,000 tickets a year from the ticket office, and a further 8 selling between 100,000 and 200,000. A further 5 are only a cruel fraction below 100,000.  Saving around a quarter of ticket offices - which that is - would probably account for between 80% and 90% of the tickets sold, and people of all views could claim a degree of victory.

Yes - this might be what was intended to be the outcome in the first place

[ChrisB]

I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry.

An all out strike?  No, me neither. 
Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal.

That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway.

One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that?

The football season starts next week (Including the FA Charity Shield at Wembley), and the Premier League the following week. II's idea would upset a lot of fans each week....it may have legs to produce a change of heart by say, when the clocks go back. Gridlock on the roads each weekend as all the fans take to the roads....

[JayMac]

[grahame]

Many a true word written in jest, I'm afraid.

[TaplowGreen]

My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) is that as far as GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?

I've just returned from a few days in Cheltenham (about 20 mins late into Reading today from Cheltenham Spa), but looking at the departure boards at Reading on my return things seemed pretty much normal.

I get that the effect may be greater elsewhere in the country, but with this (relatively speaking) minor level of disruption, do the Unions really expect the Government/RDG^‡(resolve) to change their position, without (as others have suggested) a pretty major escalation in the level of action?

All the Unions seem to be achieving at the moment is their members losing money, and a few more customers drifting away from the railway.

There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?

[IndustryInsider]

There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?

Didn't ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago?  Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) but a definite change of tactic.

[TaplowGreen]

There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind?

Didn't ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago?  Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) but a definite change of tactic.

...............from one ineffective tactic to another it would seem.

[IndustryInsider]

My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) is that as far as GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?

90 or so today.