Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsewhere - 2016

[whole diary]

[SandTEngineer]

Can someone explain why axle counters have found favour instead of track circuits over the last few years. They don't seem to be as reliable as they were made out to be when first introduced.

Simple: Whole life cost.  Axle counter sections can be of any length whereas track cicuits in AC electrified areas are limited to 600m length.  As the average signal spacing is around 1300m you would need 3 track circuits per section instead of a single axle counter section.  Then there is the add on cost of keeping the running rails insulated etc. for track circuits. Lots of other (technical) reasons as well.

[Oxonhutch]

Looks like the same, or similar fault, has struck this morning's rush hour too. Temperature issues or things moving incompletely under possession upsetting the counters?

[John R]

Can someone explain why axle counters have found favour instead of track circuits over the last few years. They don't seem to be as reliable as they were made out to be when first introduced.

Simple: Whole life cost.  Axle counter sections can be of any length whereas track cicuits in AC electrified areas are limited to 600m length.  As the average signal spacing is around 1300m you would need 3 track circuits per section instead of a single axle counter section.  Then there is the add on cost of keeping the running rails insulated etc. for track circuits. Lots of other (technical) reasons as well.

Many thanks for the clear explanation.

[TaplowGreen]

Day 2 (checked first johoare!  )

The much vaunted "new and improved signalling that will bring about a faster and more reliable railway" seems to have some way to go............


Due to a fault with the signalling system earlier today between Maidenhead and Slough trains have to run at reduced speed on all lines towards London Paddington.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 40 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 12:00 18/10.
Further Information
An update will follow within the next 1 hour.
This is due to ongoing axle counter failures in the Slough area. Technicians have been on site rectifying the issue throughout the night.
Trains are required to run at a reduced speed on the two lines towards London Paddington and therefore delays are to be expected transversing through to Slough from Reading/Maidenhead.
Alterations and cancellatons will be used to ease congestion and preserve a timetabled service.

[IndustryInsider]

The much vaunted "new and improved signalling that will bring about a faster and more reliable railway" seems to have some way to go............

Very poor show again.  According to the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) logs the technicians are having real problems resolving the axle counter fault(s) in this particular area.  Most if not all trains getting through but with a typical delay of between 15-25 minutes, so would have be an ideal Delay Repay 15 claiming scenario for the passengers.  Mark Hopwood's patience must be getting very thin!

[Jason]

Do you qualify for a refund or are you not TV on 1L10?

I raised this in
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17143.0
but my route is not TV enough to quality it seems.

[Oxonhutch]

It appears from OpenTimeTrains that some up expresses are being talked past signal 534 (Slough Up Main Home equivalent?) rather than being diverted onto the Up Relief - though I notice that those that are diverted do a lot better time wise.

[Jason]

1L10 again delayed 35 minutes into Paddington.
The train manager (who himself was on this service yesterday) stated that he has raised a complaint (or whatever the correct term is) with signalling control regarding the diversion of this service onto the relief line as early as Twyford both today and yesterday.
It's doubly irritating to have the already peak service delay further increased as you watch later trains get given line priority. Two days running.
If there was a 'Rants and Raves' section I'd go and post there. I am in a state of high annoyance right now.

[Timmer]

Mark Hopwood's patience must be getting very thin!

His passenger's patience too.

[IndustryInsider]

It appears from OpenTimeTrains that some up expresses are being talked past signal 534 (Slough Up Main Home equivalent?) rather than being diverted onto the Up Relief - though I notice that those that are diverted do a lot better time wise.

That's exactly what's happening.  Better to do that than swamp the relief lines with all the trains as that would soon back up and delay everything more.

1L10 again delayed 35 minutes into Paddington.
The train manager (who himself was on this service yesterday) stated that he has raised a complaint (or whatever the correct term is) with signalling control regarding the diversion of this service onto the relief line as early as Twyford both today and yesterday.

Twyford West is the nearest point to the location of the problem (Slough West) where trains can be diverted onto the relief lines, otherwise you'd be committed to the main lines and having to be talked by the signal at danger.

Mark Hopwood's patience must be getting very thin!

His passenger's patience too.

Yes of course.  The posts on here confirm that.  Very frustrating for the staff on the front line as well.

[Jason]

Certainly for that part of the morning peak being committed to the main line meant a more timely arrival into Paddington.
1A72 and 1A04 both went ahead and my service only just nudged ahead of 1A05 because that one was stationary on the main near Maidenhead.

[broadgage]

Presumably this will get worse as more of the new signalling is installed ?

An industry expert has stated a couple of pages back that the new signalling equipment is "less robust and has a shorter life" than the old stuff.
We also learn that axle counters were chosen over track circuits on the grounds of lower cost, because fewer are needed.

It seems to me that either the new equipment IS working as intended, with the failure rate being normal and that this is "the new normal" in which case better get used to it.

Or perhaps the equipment is not working correctly. And might improve at least in theory. Who supplied and installed it ?

[lordgoata]

but with a typical delay of between 15-25 minutes, so would have be an ideal Delay Repay 15 claiming scenario for the passengers.

I'm still getting my head around all this delay repay stuff, so sorry if this is a daft question but:

Currently: Due to the ongoing delays of however many minutes, over however many days, the punctuality score is below the threshold, so when I renew my season ticket I automatically get my 5% off, is that correct (in basic terms) ? I presume that is all automated by computer when they put my customer number in, it knows I am renewing on a service affected by the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) trigger etc.

Delay Repay 15: If the train I am on arrives at its destination 15 minutes or more later, I have to put in a claim, every day, to get a refund. This is then manually processed by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) and something (cheque ? vouchers ?) are issued back to me.

I know everyone keeps saying Delay Repay is the better option, which it may well be for some customers, but to me it just seems a whole load of extra grief for the customer!

Again, I do not fully understand the process, hence the questions, before someone comes along and tells me it's obvious, again...

[IndustryInsider]

Certainly for that part of the morning peak being committed to the main line meant a more timely arrival into Paddington.
1A72 and 1A04 both went ahead and my service only just nudged ahead of 1A05 because that one was stationary on the main near Maidenhead.

It's an imprecise art when deciding what the quickest course of action would be for a given train.  Some trains had to go relief line otherwise there would have been huge delays on all of the HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) arrivals, but I can appreciate that must be frustrating when your train is adversely affected two days in a row.

It seems to me that either the new equipment IS working as intended, with the failure rate being normal and that this is "the new normal" in which case better get used to it.

Or perhaps the equipment is not working correctly. And might improve at least in theory. Who supplied and installed it ?

Axle counters seem to be working well in other areas of the network where they are increasingly being used (i.e. Reading, Banbury), so I'm not sure why the Maidenhead to Paddington is causing so many regular problems.

but with a typical delay of between 15-25 minutes, so would have be an ideal Delay Repay 15 claiming scenario for the passengers.

I'm still getting my head around all this delay repay stuff, so sorry if this is a daft question but:

Currently: Due to the ongoing delays of however many minutes, over however many days, the punctuality score is below the threshold, so when I renew my season ticket I automatically get my 5% off, is that correct (in basic terms) ? I presume that is all automated by computer when they put my customer number in, it knows I am renewing on a service affected by the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) trigger etc.

Delay Repay 15: If the train I am on arrives at its destination 15 minutes or more later, I have to put in a claim, every day, to get a refund. This is then manually processed by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) and something (cheque ? vouchers ?) are issued back to me.

I know everyone keeps saying Delay Repay is the better option, which it may well be for some customers, but to me it just seems a whole load of extra grief for the customer!

Again, I do not fully understand the process, hence the questions, before someone comes along and tells me it's obvious, again...

It is a clumsier system to claim rather than the automatic charter renewal system, but it is much fairer and has a number of advantages.  Jason on here with his Mortimer to Paddington season, gets no discount whereas you from Goring (or is it Pangbourne?) do.  That's not fair on him as he suffers the same delays as you do.

Also, if you stop commuting for any reason, then the delays you've suffered in the last year count for nothing as there's no renewed ticket for you to get a discount on.

I would imagine in the longer term, technology will mean the claim system will become easier and easier over time and eventually automatic.

[Oxonhutch]

I have just checked my records (sad, I know  ) and 19 of my up trains were at least 15 minutes late (most recent being today) since this date last year, only one of which was more than 30 minutes late.  I've done the sums and 5% off my annual season ticket is still working out the better deal for me. I completely understand that this may not be the case for others similarly affected.