Theoretical Design For A New DMU For Portsmouth-Cardiff Services

[whole diary]

[grahame]

About to do a spot of research.....

If you were to design a new-build unit for Portsmouth-Cardiff services, what features would it have, how many carriages, would it be based on a unit already in existence etc.

This thread of over a decade ago has popped up on one of my admin pages as being read again - and indeed it does make for interesting reading at the time that the Cardiff - Portsmouth trains are indeed in the process of growing from 3 to 5 carriages

[Clan Line]

On that subject................what has happened to all the "extra seats" (albeit 5 abreast) we were promised on this route ??  Turbos seem to be as rare as hen's teeth nowadays.
Just had a look at Warminster CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) - of 7 Cardiff/Portsmouth trains shown, 6 are identified as having 3 coaches and only 1 as having 5 coaches !

[rogerw]

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters

[Timmer]

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters

Was never going to be an ideal solution having two separate trains with no walk through. If only there had been some spare 158’s to strengthen the existing GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) fleet operating the route but alas there isn’t.

[grahame]

On that subject................what has happened to all the "extra seats" (albeit 5 abreast) we were promised on this route ??  Turbos seem to be as rare as hen's teeth nowadays ...

Remember there are - what - 4 units still in the east which should have come across at the New Year when Newbury went electric - those on the Bedwyns which, however, haven't gone 80x because of the need for camera mods for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) operation.    I do wonder, mind you, if 3 more 80x units were already in use on those services how many other services would be 5 carriages instead of 10.

[Timmer]

I do wonder, mind you, if 3 more 80x units were already in use on those services how many other services would be 5 carriages instead of 10.

Certainly does make you wonder 

[jamestheredengine]

Part of me wonders whether it wouldn't be possible to convert some of the 5-car Hitachis to diesel/third rail and use them on the Portsmouth service. They'd be less bad there than on the Main Line.

[Bmblbzzz]

I thought all of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s Hitachis would run on diesel. Is range an issue?

[Clan Line]

Part of me wonders whether it wouldn't be possible to convert some of the 5-car Hitachis to diesel/third rail and use them on the Portsmouth service. They'd be less bad there than on the Main Line.

Not suitable - have only 4 abreast seating and adequate leg room !

[MVR S&T]

The most suitable modern cost effective train for Portsmouth to Cardiff, in my opinion is the Voyager class 220.
Then HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for the cross country Poole/Bournemouth to Manchester services.
But in the real world..

[IndustryInsider]

Not that it’s likely to happen, but would there be enough seats on a 4-car Voyager?

[broadgage]

5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) should do.
Build some more 10 car (not 5+5) IETs, mechanically similar to and interchangeable with the present fleet but with a proper inter-city internal fit out.
Use these new inter-city IETs on the longer distance and more important GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services, and transfer some of the existing 5 car units to Cardiff-Portsmouth.

My well known objections to IETs are not primarily on engineering or technical grounds, but are due to the downgraded passenger experience on routes previously operated by proper inter-city trains.

I have little objection to additional full length IETs being built with proper inter-city internal arrangements, and cascading the shorter and lower specification units to secondary routes.
New IETs should be more affordable than the first lot.
Maintenance should be simplified if the new units are mechanically like the existing fleet, differing only in internal fittings, equipment and layout.
One type of train from the driving P.O.V. simplifying training and rostering.
Already approved by the various regulatory agencies, unlike a new design.

[grahame]

On stuff that's around - and a paper exercise - 172/2 and 172/3 units. Modern, 5 car, 2+2 seating, through gangway, 100 m.p.h., Centre carriage doors for faster intermediate loading / unloading.  In fact pretty much the stuff that was about to be ordered (or had been and was cancelled) when electrification of the inner services from Paddington was announced and the turbos became available.

[broadgage]

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters

Was never going to be an ideal solution having two separate trains with no walk through. If only there had been some spare 158’s to strengthen the existing GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) fleet operating the route but alas there isn’t.

Yet elsewhere on the GWR network, two separate trains with no walk through have been recently introduced and touted as a great step forward.

[CMRail]

5 car IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) should do.
Build some more 10 car (not 5+5) IETs, mechanically similar to and interchangeable with the present fleet but with a proper inter-city internal fit out.
Use these new inter-city IETs on the longer distance and more important GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services, and transfer some of the existing 5 car units to Cardiff-Portsmouth.

My well known objections to IETs are not primarily on engineering or technical grounds, but are due to the downgraded passenger experience on routes previously operated by proper inter-city trains.

I have little objection to additional full length IETs being built with proper inter-city internal arrangements, and cascading the shorter and lower specification units to secondary routes.
New IETs should be more affordable than the first lot.
Maintenance should be simplified if the new units are mechanically like the existing fleet, differing only in internal fittings, equipment and layout.
One type of train from the driving P.O.V. simplifying training and rostering.
Already approved by the various regulatory agencies, unlike a new design.

And how will they be cheaper?
What you gonna say to Bristol/Cheltenham/Cotswolds people who need shorter trains to provide service change?
Who is going to pay for the “intercity internal arrangements” and will it provide seating capacity improvements?