Briefing on forthcoming changes - from GWR on 14.3.2024

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

The faster journey time to Plymouth is welcome however likely to be temporary until work starts in earnest at Old Oak Common on the Acton-Solihull express.

You've lost me there.  Can you elaborate?

Our local media have been highlighting the probable delays with the Old Oak HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) Interchange building.
Also talk from said media that West Country trains could be sent into Euston to avoid the delays and possible bus replacement or shuttle replacement into Paddington.

For example Plymouth Live yesterday, with a local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) playing the "we in the SW are always victims" card again:

Rail passengers in the South West could face a "decade of disruption" because of the Government's 'hidden' plans to build a new High Speed 2 rail station alongside the Great Western mainline in west London, a Plymouth MP has claimed.

In a letter to the Secretary of State for Transport Mark Harper MP, Plymouth Sutton and Devonport MP Luke Pollard has claimed the government’s plan to build the station at Old Oak Common for High Speed 2 services would result in disruption and longer journeys for passengers travelling from the South West to the capital on the Great Western line.

Mr Pollard also warned that the construction of Old Oak Common would inevitably involve a large number of weekend closures of the line between Reading and London Paddington which would "significantly damage the rail service" to the South West and Wales - and asked if the Government had not made the potential damage known publicly ahead of a General Election.

A small price to pay for progress. How else does he expect it to happen?

Seems oblivious to the positives, the easy connections to the North and the additional traffic that could potentially bring and only concentrates on the negatives.

[TaplowGreen]

The faster journey time to Plymouth is welcome however likely to be temporary until work starts in earnest at Old Oak Common on the Acton-Solihull express.

You've lost me there.  Can you elaborate?

Our local media have been highlighting the probable delays with the Old Oak HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) Interchange building.
Also talk from said media that West Country trains could be sent into Euston to avoid the delays and possible bus replacement or shuttle replacement into Paddington.

For example Plymouth Live yesterday, with a local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) playing the "we in the SW are always victims" card again:

Rail passengers in the South West could face a "decade of disruption" because of the Government's 'hidden' plans to build a new High Speed 2 rail station alongside the Great Western mainline in west London, a Plymouth MP has claimed.

In a letter to the Secretary of State for Transport Mark Harper MP, Plymouth Sutton and Devonport MP Luke Pollard has claimed the government’s plan to build the station at Old Oak Common for High Speed 2 services would result in disruption and longer journeys for passengers travelling from the South West to the capital on the Great Western line.

Mr Pollard also warned that the construction of Old Oak Common would inevitably involve a large number of weekend closures of the line between Reading and London Paddington which would "significantly damage the rail service" to the South West and Wales - and asked if the Government had not made the potential damage known publicly ahead of a General Election.

A small price to pay for progress. How else does he expect it to happen?

Seems oblivious to the positives, the easy connections to the North and the additional traffic that could potentially bring and only concentrates on the negatives.

As I said elsewhere, he's focussing on his constituents interests and concerns, that's his job.

Appreciate that it doesn't chime with the HS2 advocates.

[a-driver]

As I said elsewhere, he's focussing on his constituents interests and concerns, that's his job.

Appreciate that it doesn't chime with the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) advocates.

Given there’s very little if any information publicly available regarding the HS2 works and its affect on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) I doubt his constituents will have voiced any concern. No other MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) has voiced concerns. Are they failing at their job.
This is just an MP doing what a MP does best. Cheap shots to get noticed. Is there an election coming up?!! 

[TaplowGreen]

As I said elsewhere, he's focussing on his constituents interests and concerns, that's his job.

Appreciate that it doesn't chime with the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) advocates.

Given there’s very little if any information publicly available regarding the HS2 works and its affect on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) I doubt his constituents will have voiced any concern. No other MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) has voiced concerns. Are they failing at their job.
This is just an MP doing what a MP does best. Cheap shots to get noticed. Is there an election coming up?!! 

I'm sure you're better informed and have more knowledge of the concerns and interests of the good people of Plymouth Sutton and Devonport than their local MP, as well as having such compelling, unbiased and objective insight into his character.

[a-driver]

As I said elsewhere, he's focussing on his constituents interests and concerns, that's his job.

Appreciate that it doesn't chime with the HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) advocates.

Given there’s very little if any information publicly available regarding the HS2 works and its affect on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) I doubt his constituents will have voiced any concern. No other MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) has voiced concerns. Are they failing at their job.
This is just an MP doing what a MP does best. Cheap shots to get noticed. Is there an election coming up?!! 

I'm sure you're better informed and have more knowledge of the concerns and interests of the good people of Plymouth Sutton and Devonport than their local MP, as well as having such compelling, unbiased and objective insight into his character.

My compelling, unbiased and objective insight into his character stems from the fact this MP voiced no concerns over the reduction of the sleeper service to just two days a week for the past, 5 months or more.
He voiced no concerns over the week long line closures currently being experienced for resignalling, neither did he voice any concern for the months of alterations to early morning and late evening services to/from Plymouth, also for resignalling.
Alterations that have far more impact on the good people of Plymouth Sutton & Devonport then hearsay surrounding HS2.

Maybe Mr Pollard fears these HS2 works are actually going to personally affect him, hence why he has concerns. Who knows.

[grahame]

The relief train to Plymouth and the resulant superfast run of the regular Penzance train are for the summer only.  The extra train has other things to do come the autumn.  The path IS being kept so that it can be run again when appropriate amd there's a train to do it.  So not really a long term thing for Plymouth.

There is what I read as widespread early concern amongst the informed and interested in the community, and indeed in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), at the effect the closures for six years over the Christmas period - ranging from 2 days some years to 18 years days in other years - is going to upset passengers, as will extra stops if they are to be aded thereafter at Old Oak.   There is a feeling that the new station will bring very few benefits / new travel opportunities to GWR passengers who are having to "pay" for it with extra disruption and slower journeys.   But I suspect at the end of the day people will just put up with the disruption and slowing, with the wider community getting a bit upset nearer the time it actually happens, but then learning to live with the changes that are permanent.

How much MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) are briefed, by who, whether they choose to take these briefings / inputs further and what they look to achieve by doing so will vary between them.  It was very interesting to see the different ways our local MPs in Wiltshire and BaNES reacted to the news that well used through services to and from London were to be withdrawn, and the murky and dirty way that had been decided.  Some made very strong and public inputs in support of the services (not that it saved the services), other talked of going in to see the minister and raising it with him - but the way this was reported left it very unclear as to whether the MP in question had made a strong input on our behalf, or had assured the minister that if he stuck to his guns it would blow over.

Edit to correct closure from "18 years" to "18 days"

[a-driver]

There is what I read as widespread early concern amongst the informed and interested in the community, and indeed in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), at the effect the closures for six years over the Christmas period - ranging from 2 days some years to 18 years in other years - is going to upset passengers, as will extra stops if they are to be aded thereafter at Old Oak.   There is a feeling that the new station will bring very few benefits / new travel opportunities to GWR passengers who are having to "pay" for it with extra disruption and slower journeys.   But I suspect at the end of the day people will just put up with the disruption and slowing, with the wider community getting a bit upset nearer the time it actually happens, but then learning to live with the changes that are permanent.

People opposed HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) on the basis of it not being worth it for just 15 minutes…… but an a extra stop on a services between Padd and Reading costing probably about 5 minutes onto a journey time going into Paddington is now a big deal. Old Oak station will be a quicker interchange to get onto the Liz Line, then going through to Paddington for starters. Swings and roundabouts.

As for disruption whilst the work is undertaken, some trains will surely leave the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) at Acton Mainline, effectively go round the back of the current CrossRail depot where it’ll drop onto the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) into Euston, an extra 2 miles.  Might even be the potential to upgrade the current track for higher line speeds but it’s certainly not the end of the world.
They rebuilt Reading station around an operational railway with minimal interruption, it can be done again

[IndustryInsider]

The relief train to Plymouth and the resulant superfast run of the regular Penzance train are for the summer only.  The extra train has other things to do come the autumn.  The path IS being kept so that it can be run again when appropriate amd there's a train to do it.  So not really a long term thing for Plymouth.

There is what I read as widespread early concern amongst the informed and interested in the community, and indeed in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), at the effect the closures for six years over the Christmas period - ranging from 2 days some years to 18 years in other years - is going to upset passengers, as will extra stops if they are to be aded thereafter at Old Oak.   There is a feeling that the new station will bring very few benefits / new travel opportunities to GWR passengers who are having to "pay" for it with extra disruption and slower journeys.   But I suspect at the end of the day people will just put up with the disruption and slowing, with the wider community getting a bit upset nearer the time it actually happens, but then learning to live with the changes that are permanent.

How much MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) are briefed, by who, whether they choose to take these briefings / inputs further and what they look to achieve by doing so will vary between them.  It was very interesting to see the different ways our local MPs in Wiltshire and BaNES reacted to the news that well used through services to and from London were to be withdrawn, and the murky and dirty way that had been decided.  Some made very strong and public inputs in support of the services (not that it saved the services), other talked of going in to see the minister and raising it with him - but the way this was reported left it very unclear as to whether the MP in question had made a strong input on our behalf, or had assured the minister that if he stuck to his guns it would blow over.

Thanks for providing an objective, informed and reasonable answer to my question, Graham.  Though I think you meant 18 days and not 18 years!

Still waiting any more insight as to whether the 19:04 is being badly crowded with Reading passengers on a Friday?

[grahame]

Thanks for providing an objective, informed and reasonable answer to my question, Graham.  Though I think you meant 18 days and not 18 years!

Still waiting any more insight as to whether the 19:04 is being badly crowded with Reading passengers on a Friday?

Corrected now in my original post.  Several reports of that slip, which at least confirms that people still read my stuff and furthermore that some are happy and have the time to let me know when I make a goof like that -  I appreciate the reporting, thank you.

I am not going to speculate on the 19:04 dropping off people at Reading on a Friday these days - I do not have the knowledge to inform; I am not a politician so I can say "I don't know" 

[IndustryInsider]

 

I am not going to speculate on the 19:04 dropping off people at Reading on a Friday these days - I do not have the knowledge to inform; I am not a politician so I can say "I don't know" 

I’ll see if I can take another few looks at it myself. 

[nickswift99]

There is what I read as widespread early concern amongst the informed and interested in the community, and indeed in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), at the effect the closures for six years over the Christmas period - ranging from 2 days some years to 18 years in other years - is going to upset passengers, as will extra stops if they are to be aded thereafter at Old Oak.   There is a feeling that the new station will bring very few benefits / new travel opportunities to GWR passengers who are having to "pay" for it with extra disruption and slower journeys.   But I suspect at the end of the day people will just put up with the disruption and slowing, with the wider community getting a bit upset nearer the time it actually happens, but then learning to live with the changes that are permanent.

People opposed HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) on the basis of it not being worth it for just 15 minutes…… but an a extra stop on a services between Padd and Reading costing probably about 5 minutes onto a journey time going into Paddington is now a big deal. Old Oak station will be a quicker interchange to get onto the Liz Line, then going through to Paddington for starters. Swings and roundabouts.

As for disruption whilst the work is undertaken, some trains will surely leave the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) at Acton Mainline, effectively go round the back of the current CrossRail depot where it’ll drop onto the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) into Euston, an extra 2 miles.  Might even be the potential to upgrade the current track for higher line speeds but it’s certainly not the end of the world.
They rebuilt Reading station around an operational railway with minimal interruption, it can be done again

The benefits of Old Oak will only be realised if passengers are able to use integrated ticketing that supports railcards. The current position means that passengers have to travel to Paddington on the mainline with discounted tickets then swap to the Elizabeth line with a contactless payment mechanism.

[ray951]

There are pictures of a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) at Waterloo station today as part of a test run for the Old Oak Common HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) closures, apparently one is also due to visit Euston this week.

https://x.com/SWTrainspotter/status/1769659039867081051?t=1dM3g_rktSn6YAt75TnqeA&s=03

[ray951]

There are pictures of a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) at Waterloo station today as part of a test run for the Old Oak Common HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) closures, apparently one is also due to visit Euston this week.

https://x.com/SWTrainspotter/status/1769659039867081051?t=1dM3g_rktSn6YAt75TnqeA&s=03

Well looks like a GWR IET went to Euston today.
https://x.com/TerrierMcD/status/1769691037558059255?t=CVVTnxxoYsbWZxbGrHSTwQ&s=03

[Timmer]

Which station, Euston or Waterloo, would make for the best temporary London terminus for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IC^▸ (Inter City) services when the route into Paddington is closed for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) related work?

Could they end up using both?

I know which one I’d prefer and it certainly isn’t Euston.

[a-driver]

Which station, Euston or Waterloo, would make for the best temporary London terminus for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IC^▸ (Inter City) services when the route into Paddington is closed for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) related work?

Could they end up using both?

I know which one I’d prefer and it certainly isn’t Euston.

Both. There isn’t the space to run everything into one.

Euston is probably the top choice as it offers easier access to North Pole and very few miles of diesel running.