Labour to nationalise train operators - ongoing discussion, merged posts

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Incidentally, roughly 100 stations have been added to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail network since 2000. ...

The numbers do add up ... I have just been through Wikipedia and added one or two not in their lists ..

2000
Brighouse
Dunfermline Queen Margaret
Lea Green
Warwick Parway
Wavertree Technology Park

2001
Howood

2002
Beauly
Brunstane
Newcraighall
Sampford Courtney
Sunderland

2003
Chandler's Ford
Edinburgh Park

2005
Chatelherault
Gartcosh
Glasshoughton
Kelvindale
Larkhall
Llantwit Major
Merryton
Rhoose

2006
Liverpool South Parkway

2007
Coleshill Parkway
Ebbsfleet International
Llanharan

2008
Alloa
Aylesbury Vale Parkway
Crosskeys
Ebbw Vale Parkway
Heathrow Terminal 5
Llanhilleth
Mitcham Eastfields
Newbridge
Risca
Rogerstone
Shephers Bush

2009
Corby
East Midlands Parkway
Imperial Wharf
Laurencekirk
Stratford International
Workington North

2010
Bathgate
Blackridge
Dalston Junction
Haggerston
Hoxton
Shoreditch High Street

2011
Armadale
Buckshaw Parkway
Caldercruix
Drumgelloch
Southenc Airport

2012
Fishguard and Goodwick

2013
Conon Bridge
Energlyn and Churchill Park
Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway

2014
James Cook
Pye Corner

2015
Apperley Bridge
Bicester Village
Cranbook
Ebbw Vale Town
Eskbank
Galashiels
Gorebridge
Islip
Newcourt
Newtongrange
Oxford Parkway
Shawfair
Stow
Tweedbank

2016
Bermuda Park
Covetry Arena
Edinburgh Gateway
Kirstall Forge
Lea Bridge

2017
Cambridge North
Ilkeston
Low Moor

2018
Kenilworth
Maghull North

2019
Meridian Water
Robroyston
South Shields Interchange
Warrington West

2020
Horden
Kintore
Worcestershire Parkway

2021
Bow Street
Okehampton
Soham

2022
Barking Riverside
Canary Wharf
Reston
Woolwich

2023
Brent Cross West
East Linton
Headbolt Lane
Inverness Airport
Marsh Barton
Portway Park and Ride
Reading Green Park
Thanet Parkway

One or two from the Wikipedia lists are, in my view, questionable as to whether they should be listed or not for various reasons.

[IndustryInsider]

Over that period it is very telling how percentage wise, when you take into account populations, England is so far behind Wales and Scotland- though it’s good to see a slight shift in that trend over the last five or so years.

[Noggin]

Nice page on openings here: https://trundleage.co.uk/timeline-of-openings/

14 planned for 2024 (assuming they all open on time), almost all in England including three new lines (Levenmouth, Camp Hill, Northumberland)

The South Wales upgrade is going to be stunning, though its way over budget.

I don't think we should underestimate just how much the rest of the network has improved over the last couple of years either e.g. Bristol to Gloucester half hourly service.

 

[grahame]

That's genuinely very interesting, really had no idea we'd gained 100 stations in the last 20 years.

Gets lost in the background noise while people make waves about inconsequential closures such as at Newhaven Marine…

Perhaps a reminder that good news is soon forgotten and bad news is remembered for a long, long time.  Sadly, a warning to he who dares sort of the fare system creating winners who will forget) and losers (who will remember for the next general election, and perhaps the one after that).

Yes, I am aware (and was reminded) of the prevelance of new stations in Scotland and Wales.  Intermediate stations on  the Borders line and the line to Ebbw Vale made quite some difference, of course; we just need a single re-opening in England (that won't be happening, I know) from Okehampton to Padstow with all its intermediates, and the pendulum could swing.  Or adding back on to the network Norton Fitzwarren, Bishop's Lydeard, Crowcombe, Stogumber, Williton, Watchet, Washford, Blue Anchor, Dunster, Butlins and Minehead Central ...

[TonyK]

Wellington and Cullompton are relatively low-hanging fruit. Ashley Down should be open later this year - as should Portishead and Pill, although not yet. The 2020s could beat the first two decades of the millennium.

[JayMac]

The Labour Party have broken cover on their plans for the railways. They will nationalise all TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) as and when their contracts end. However, they have no plans to nationalise the RoSCos. Rolling stock will remain in the private sector.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-68889345

Shadow Secretary of State for Transport Louise Haigh is due to make the announcement today, 26th April 2024.

Excellent news. Of course, the tories have poured scorn on the plan. Saying it is pointless and uncosted. We are over three years on from the Great British Railways announcement, and nearly six years since the Williams review was announced, and only at the stage of a draft bill, with legislation unlikely before the general election. They can find the money for new and interesting ways to kill people (£2.5bn for 'defence' announced this week). And can find parliamentary time to force through expensive and unnecessary legislation to send refugees to a tinpot dictatorship. Yet, sorting out the railways in a timely manner is beyond their wit.

[infoman]

and nothing will change,

will we go back to the "old days" of when all services waited for a late running connections,within reason?

and accountability for delay minutes will be done away with.

[IndustryInsider]

and nothing will change,

will we go back to the "old days" of when all services waited for a late running connections,within reason?

and accountability for delay minutes will be done away with.

Good to see some actual commitments from Labour. I doubt a huge amount will change, but GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) does desperately need to happen ASAP as we currently have the worst of both worlds.

Delay minute accountability won’t change much IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion).  All the privately owned freight and open access operators will still be running (probably more of the latter), who will need compensating if the agreements they have are breached.

Not too many crumbs of comfort offered to the unions either.

[grahame]

and nothing will change,

will we go back to the "old days" of when all services waited for a late running connections,within reason?

and accountability for delay minutes will be done away with.

Who knows? We are in a different world.

Over half a lifetime ago, when I was in my first youth, I travelled a lot by train, including on a number of lines (but far too few) that closed soon thereafter.  Trains were infrequent and slow and sometimes perverse and I can't remember there being the problems we have / here about these days with overcrowding on them, nor with missing connections.   Stations like Slaggyford and Tumby Woodside come to mind - intermediate calls on quiet trains with few passengers getting on or off.  Chasing sheep with a DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) in the first case; people just groaning at all the stops from Firsby to Lincoln on a summer Saturday train taking holiday makers home from Skeggy.  And the train when it got back into Haltwhistle just sitting idle waiting for its next run a number of hours later.

In our different world, these lines have gone.  Other lines and stations, though, have broadened their services whilst at the same time slimming down the infrastructure sometimes too much and making staff and rolling stock utilisation so much more "efficient" that all too often there is no longer the capacity to cope with events out of the ordinary.   And so things like trains waiting for connections don't simply leave the arrival at a branch terminal a bit late - these days they bounce back on the return service too.  And service frequency increases mean that in many cases the wait for the next train in any case is far shorter than it used to be. 

There ARE times that services wait, but they are few and far between. The frustration we feel in coming home from London to Melksham and waiting for the next of 9 trains per day (i.e. onto a service that remains a poor frequency) is - well - frustrating (!!) but thank goodness that the 22:30 last train does wait a few minutes if the London express that connects with it is a few minutes late.  And it can do do because there are no onward connections or next duties to be covered.   In contrast, a delayed service Melksham to London is no problem - sure, if the connection fails at Swindon there is going to be another train a few minutes later.

Not sure how much this is changed by who runs the trains and how delays are analysed.  Perhaps what's needed is a modern vision that invests in making the service reliable rather than stretching resources to their extreme, and providing the resource to handle the resulting confidence in rail and its further growth as an integrated service which is environementally good and a pleasure for its customers to use.   Who manages that modern railway, who runs the trains, who sets the strategy from where the tactics become clear is irrelevant provided that the are committed to the public transport network as something that's a natural and loved part of everyday life.

[a-driver]

However, they have no plans to nationalise the RoSCos.

And they’re, unfortunately, the biggest profiteers in the industry and are probably rubbing their hands with glee at this Labour Party plan!

[IndustryInsider]

I don’t see how you could nationalise the RoSCo’s.

[infoman]

Oh how I recall seeing all those ten coach sets sat in west Sidings (just after Parson Street train station) (Monday to Friday))

All "disappearing" for the weekend and most returning Sunday night into Monday mornings.

[JayMac]

I don’t see how you could nationalise the RoSCo’s.

It could be done very slowly. Whenever a tender for new rolling stock is made the stock could be purchased by GBR^▸ (Great British Railways).

However, I suspect the RoSCos will want some guarantees from the next government, including a promise that GBR will not buy their own stock in the future.

[Trowres]

However, I suspect the RoSCos will want some guarantees from the next government, including a promise that GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) will not buy their own stock in the future.

What would the RoSCos do if they didn't receive that guarantee?

[JayMac]

Take their toys and go home?