England's Trains today

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From The Independent

The first train to depart anywhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) for more than 24 hours left London Victoria just after 5am, destination Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Gatwick airport.

Soon afterwards, another link aimed at airline passengers started up – between Stansted airport in Essex and Tottenham Hale in north London. The normal terminus in the capital, Liverpool Street, is closed for the day – along with most other major stations across the UK.

A handful of other services are running in England, mainly to, from and within London: from Victoria to Brighton plus some local South London trains; between Marylebone and Oxford; and Clapham Junction to Stratford on the London Overground.

In the Liverpool area, Merseyrail is running a “special service for some stations” including Aintree for the Boxing Day race meeting.

Despite a full football programme running – with matches including Manchester United against Birmingham team Aston Villa, and Newcastle United v Nottingham Forest – no long-distance links are running.

The only significant intercity service is between London St Pancras International and Continental Europe.

A survey the article goes on to discuss suggests that just 7% of people believe there's no call for Boxing Day services, and I know that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have asked the same question.

This is an annual topic that comes up every Christmas, with valid inputs stating that staff should be given the day off at least for these 2 days a year, that the services would not be used, that it's a good annual demonstration that the country doesn't actually need a railway, and that it's a good opportunity to do engineering.

[TaplowGreen]

From The Independent

The first train to depart anywhere in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) for more than 24 hours left London Victoria just after 5am, destination Clapham Junction, East Croydon and Gatwick airport.

Soon afterwards, another link aimed at airline passengers started up – between Stansted airport in Essex and Tottenham Hale in north London. The normal terminus in the capital, Liverpool Street, is closed for the day – along with most other major stations across the UK.

A handful of other services are running in England, mainly to, from and within London: from Victoria to Brighton plus some local South London trains; between Marylebone and Oxford; and Clapham Junction to Stratford on the London Overground.

In the Liverpool area, Merseyrail is running a “special service for some stations” including Aintree for the Boxing Day race meeting.

Despite a full football programme running – with matches including Manchester United against Birmingham team Aston Villa, and Newcastle United v Nottingham Forest – no long-distance links are running.

The only significant intercity service is between London St Pancras International and Continental Europe.

A survey the article goes on to discuss suggests that just 7% of people believe there's no call for Boxing Day services, and I know that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have asked the same question.

This is an annual topic that comes up every Christmas, with valid inputs stating that staff should be given the day off at least for these 2 days a year, that the services would not be used, that it's a good annual demonstration that the country doesn't actually need a railway, and that it's a good opportunity to do engineering.

I remember the GWR survey on this subject and would be interested in the outcome and what they plan to do with the feedback.

I don't think there's a justification for Christmas Day services but I think there is an argument for limited Boxing Day services given holiday traffic, sporting events, sales etc.

Balance has to be struck of course with engineering works etc and whilst I am sure staff like to have the day off, that would ultimately be something for managers to manage, ensuring sufficient cover to sustain the service and important to remember it's a public service industry.

[ChrisB]

Limited won't work as demand would quickly exceed supply and there would quickly be social media complaints of serious overcrowding. Peak fares all day might cover the increased costs of staffing and reduce demand to fit.

[TaplowGreen]

Limited won't work as demand would quickly exceed supply and there would quickly be social media complaints of serious overcrowding. Peak fares all day might cover the increased costs of staffing and reduce demand to fit.

There are social media complaints of serious overcrowding on long distance GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services pretty much every weekend which seem to be ignored quite effectively so I wouldn't worry yourself about that one.

As I said, there's a balance to be struck, but if people are serious about the railway making a difference in the environmental sense as well as ensuring its long term future with all the other options which are available, measures need to be taken to give the public an alternative to the motorways on days like today, encouraging them to use the service, not pricing them off or prioritising staff holidays.

The concept of a business actively trying to reduce demand for its own product or service is an interesting one though, especially when revenue is already falling through the floor!

[1st fan]

I’m currently on a Chiltern Railways train which has a fair few passengers on it and so far is running to time. There is wifi although the concrete padding in the seats has seen better days, there’s no power points and the quiet zone is anything but……………at least there is a train running and for that I am grateful.

[IndustryInsider]

As I said, there's a balance to be struck, but if people are serious about the railway making a difference in the environmental sense as well as ensuring its long term future with all the other options which are available, measures need to be taken to give the public an alternative to the motorways on days like today, encouraging them to use the service, not pricing them off or prioritising staff holidays.

The first people that need to be serious about that are those in government.  Nothing much is likely to happen without that.  And at the moment we certainly are very much without that.

[ellendune]

As I said, there's a balance to be struck, but if people are serious about the railway making a difference in the environmental sense as well as ensuring its long term future with all the other options which are available, measures need to be taken to give the public an alternative to the motorways on days like today, encouraging them to use the service, not pricing them off or prioritising staff holidays.

The first people that need to be serious about that are those in government.  Nothing much is likely to happen without that.  And at the moment we certainly are very much without that.

If we really do need a 24/7 365 day railway then we have to undo many of the cuts to routes from the Beeching era so that trains can divert round maintenance works. Beeching cut duplicate routes. The result was there was no possibility of diversion to accommodate engineering works. The availability of diversionary routes on the continent is why they can contemplate night services returning.  If we really need this sort of availability then we need more routes!

[TaplowGreen]

As I said, there's a balance to be struck, but if people are serious about the railway making a difference in the environmental sense as well as ensuring its long term future with all the other options which are available, measures need to be taken to give the public an alternative to the motorways on days like today, encouraging them to use the service, not pricing them off or prioritising staff holidays.

The first people that need to be serious about that are those in government.  Nothing much is likely to happen without that.  And at the moment we certainly are very much without that.

If we really do need a 24/7 365 day railway then we have to undo many of the cuts to routes from the Beeching era so that trains can divert round maintenance works. Beeching cut duplicate routes. The result was there was no possibility of diversion to accommodate engineering works. The availability of diversionary routes on the continent is why they can contemplate night services returning.  If we really need this sort of availability then we need more routes!

Woah! I'm not sure anyone was suggesting that we need a 24/7/365 railway - we clearly don't - I was under the impression we were discussing a limited service over the Christmas period?

I'm interested in what can be achieved not what can't be - I get the temptation is to blame/cite the Government at every turn however given GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s proactive survey on Christmas services earlier in the year, how would it work?

Would it be a case of GWR approaching the relevant DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) bod and making the case for them running a limited service on Boxing Day, or is it something they can do themselves without the need for Government approval in conjunction with NR^» (Network Rail - home page)? (Allowing for planned engineering etc?)

Seems to be something Chiltern manage most years.

[RailCornwall]

A 365/7/24 railway is what we should be aiming for, albeit with some minor Sunday tweaks. If it can be done in parts of Europe why not here.

[froome]

There is obviously "some" demand to travel by rail every day. I suspect the demand on Christmas day is limited, but given the number of events that traditionally take place on Boxing Day, then demand on that day is likely to be high.

One of the arguments against providing a service on those days is that it allows the rail industry to use that time to do essential maintenance works. Railways are obviously in a unique position in that achieving ongoing maintenance is often going to mean a reduction or temporary closure of available lines. But what i have never heard asked, or stated, is just how much maintenance actually does take place over those two days, and whether any of it could realistically take place at another time. I would be interested in hearing whether anyone knows.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm interested in what can be achieved not what can't be - I get the temptation is to blame/cite the Government at every turn however given GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s proactive survey on Christmas services earlier in the year, how would it work?

Would it be a case of GWR approaching the relevant DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) bod and making the case for them running a limited service on Boxing Day, or is it something they can do themselves without the need for Government approval in conjunction with NR^» (Network Rail - home page)? (Allowing for planned engineering etc?)

Seems to be something Chiltern manage most years.

It would work like everything does at the moment.  The DfT would need to authorise it and take on any costs associated with doing so.  Unless they are fortunate enough to have a sponsor like Bicester Village to help as in the case of Chiltern’s service.

They may have asked GWR to send them proposals, or GWR may have taken it upon themselves to produce some itself, but in terms of actually implementing anything GWR can’t off their own back.

In terms of the survey, to get an official response perhaps you should ask GWR directly?  Or Graham could ask them directly on behalf of the forum.

[ellendune]

There is obviously "some" demand to travel by rail every day. I suspect the demand on Christmas day is limited, but given the number of events that traditionally take place on Boxing Day, then demand on that day is likely to be high.

One of the arguments against providing a service on those days is that it allows the rail industry to use that time to do essential maintenance works. Railways are obviously in a unique position in that achieving ongoing maintenance is often going to mean a reduction or temporary closure of available lines. But what i have never heard asked, or stated, is just how much maintenance actually does take place over those two days, and whether any of it could realistically take place at another time. I would be interested in hearing whether anyone knows.

There may be a demand in some places but I went out yesterday and was struck by how few cars were on the road.  That does not suggest to me that there would be a high demand for rail services. 

[RailCornwall]

This is where people make mistakes, provide the option and people will use it. The effective curfewed, domestically restricted, non car owners over Christmas needs reflecting on.

[grahame]

In terms of the survey, to get an official response perhaps you should ask GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) directly?  Or Graham could ask them directly on behalf of the forum.

That makes some sense to me.

[TaplowGreen]

In terms of the survey, to get an official response perhaps you should ask GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) directly?  Or Graham could ask them directly on behalf of the forum.

That makes some sense to me.

That would be very interesting - thanks Graham.