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GBM
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« on: October 30, 2023, 05:36:20 » |
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https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/penzance-paddington-train-reverse-along-8866914Penzance to Paddington train had to reverse along rails after 'mis-routing' Passengers were left surprised at learning they were heading towards Bristol instead of London - and even more surprised when the driver put the engine into reverse........ Continues Oh, the journalistic effort in that last sentence!
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Personal opinion only. Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)  |
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Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2023, 11:22:19 » |
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Dare I point out that the title of this post is misleading? "Wrong road" means the track for the opposite direction (down instead of up, west instead of east etc); this was a case of wrong route.
In general a driver should be able to tell in advance which way the train is being sent from the signals shown and if possible should stop the train rather than "accept" a wrong route, so avoiding the need to get permission to put the engine into reverse (sigh!) and back up. None of this was unsafe but all rather disruptive and there'll no doubt be a bit of an investigation into both the signaller's and driver's respective involvement, quite possibly to be able to put on record that the driver followed the correct process in an unusual situation.
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stuving
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2023, 11:49:26 » |
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In general a driver should be able to tell in advance which way the train is being sent from the signals shown and if possible should stop the train rather than "accept" a wrong route, so avoiding the need to get permission to put the engine into reverse (sigh!) and back up. None of this was unsafe but all rather disruptive and there'll no doubt be a bit of an investigation into both the signaller's and driver's respective involvement, quite possibly to be able to put on record that the driver followed the correct process in an unusual situation.
It appears, from insiders of railforums, that the two routes at Cogload have very similar speeds: 90 and 100 mph. That means there is no safety-related need for the driver to be warned about which route is set, and in this case the signals in advance of the junction don't give that information. So this time you (and the driver) can blame the signallers! |
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bobm
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2023, 14:27:15 » |
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Journeycheck put the 21 minute delay down to a problem with the signalling system. Approaching the junction at 90mph clearly isn't going to give you enough time to see if you have the feather or not and react in time if it is wrong.  This picture from May 2018 shows a GWR▸ HST▸ being shown the route via Athelney. |
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old original
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2023, 19:57:04 » |
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Not the first time.
Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H▸ , I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.
Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.
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8 Billion people on a wet rock - of course we're not happy
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ChrisB
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2023, 20:18:48 » |
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Surely a lot harder to do in these days of ROCs▸ and SCs? Computers set the route, while the signallers watch for exceptions? So either the software would need to be faulty or an incorrect manual intervention made?
(Assuming automated signalling at the junction (I think so))
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2023, 20:38:33 » |
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Surely a lot harder to do in these days of ROCs▸ and SCs? Computers set the route, while the signallers watch for exceptions? So either the software would need to be faulty or an incorrect manual intervention made?
(Assuming automated signalling at the junction (I think so))
Exeter PSB▸ controls that junction and no automated signalling ( ARS▸ ) is fitted there. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Mark A
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2023, 20:39:06 » |
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Not the first time.
Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H▸ , I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.
Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.
Bit off topic but is it the box from Cogload that's at Coleford in the Forest of Dean? Mark |
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old original
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2023, 07:34:07 » |
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Not the first time.
Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H▸ , I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.
Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.
Bit off topic but is it the box from Cogload that's at Coleford in the Forest of Dean? Mark I honestly don't know. |
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8 Billion people on a wet rock - of course we're not happy
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2023, 09:13:06 » |
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Given that the B&H▸ / Athelney route appears to be signalled with a 'feather' should the previous signal not have been displaying a flashing yellow aspect?
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paul7575
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2023, 09:44:12 » |
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Given that the B&H▸ / Athelney route appears to be signalled with a 'feather' should the previous signal not have been displaying a flashing yellow aspect?
AIUI▸ there’s no requirement as the speed differential is only 10 mph. An aerial view suggests the points are high speed for both routes, ie neither route is actually ‘straight through’, but the B&H is clearly becoming a curve. Paul |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2023, 11:35:01 » |
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Yes that's correct, Paul. If it were resignalled now, then you would probably find a PRI (Preliminary Route Indicator) would be installed and/or a 'Splitting Distant' type of signal aspect at the signal previous to the one protecting the junction.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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bobm
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2023, 16:31:18 » |
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Ironically there is one of those PRI signals at the other end of the Berks & Hants line at Southcote Junction. Sadly it is not in a place that it is easily photographed.
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