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« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2023, 13:27:38 » |
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Mildly embarrassing for Hitachi and GWR▸ that.
Especially as the 802 series had uprated engine oomph to be able to cover the SouthWest banks and also (or were) modified to reduce the effect of sea spray along the sea wall. |
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Personal opinion only. Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)  |
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a-driver
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« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2023, 13:35:19 » |
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Mildly embarrassing for Hitachi and GWR▸ that.
Especially as the 802 series had uprated engine oomph to be able to cover the SouthWest banks and also (or were) modified to reduce the effect of sea spray along the sea wall. It is resistant to sea spray, not huge waves! Wasn’t that the definition of Dawlish proof. Set will be dragged to Stoke Gifford shortly. It was originally going to Laira but with no paths overnight due to possessions that’s not been possible. I imagine it will move overnight again due to slow speed and the fact it’ll need to block Newton Abbot to couple up another set. I’m guessing Hitachi may not want a diesel loco involved. Cost. |
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broadgage
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« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2023, 15:06:44 » |
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Charter a train (or trains?) from the Kingswear for that period and provide a shuttle service.
Oooooozz gonna pay for it!
Or from the West Somerset Railway, and hitachi should pay as they made the new trains have failed to cope with the conditions were known about at the design stage. |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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1st fan
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« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2023, 15:41:52 » |
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Mildly embarrassing for Hitachi and GWR▸ that.
Especially as the 802 series had uprated engine oomph to be able to cover the SouthWest banks and also (or were) modified to reduce the effect of sea spray along the sea wall. It is resistant to sea spray, not huge waves! Wasn’t that the definition of Dawlish proof. Not sure about that I thought someone posted the definition but I can't find it. They didn't look like big waves to me (viewed on the Coast Cams on YouTube), I've been on an HST▸ which went through far worse conditions during a storm. On another, the driver moved the train on in between large waves stopping when they were going to hit the power car. I would be fascinated to know the exact means of how 'Dawlish proof' was tested i.e. the how they simulated the conditions. If they were tested for "stormy" conditions then how stormy? I'd also be interested to see what the DFT▸ specified were the conditions that the trains had to continue working under. I've seen testing done on other things that covers specific conditions very well, but outside of those conditions it's pot luck. Volkswagen and other manufacturers dieselgate spring to mind as more public examples. In testing did they include sand/pebbles (and other sea detritus in the mix of what they threw at the train or just mildly salty water? We can say this was a once a year storm etc. but they're becoming more frequent. Set will be dragged to Stoke Gifford shortly. It was originally going to Laira but with no paths overnight due to possessions that’s not been possible. I imagine it will move overnight again due to slow speed and the fact it’ll need to block Newton Abbot to couple up another set. I’m guessing Hitachi may not want a diesel loco involved. Cost.
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 15:58:42 by 1st fan »
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Jamsdad
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« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2023, 15:46:18 » |
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The sea condition at Dawlish yesterday was not "huge waves". It was mostly sea spray blowing over the train. Exactly the sort of conditions I thought it was promised that the IETs▸ could cope with. But clearly they can't.
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Trowres
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« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2023, 16:05:00 » |
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Apparently on its way from Newton Abbot to Stoke Gifford at 15:15. 800007+802114 according to RTT» .
Just passed Cowley Bridge Jn at 16:04.
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a-driver
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« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2023, 16:51:39 » |
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The sea condition at Dawlish yesterday was not "huge waves". It was mostly sea spray blowing over the train. Exactly the sort of conditions I thought it was promised that the IETs▸ could cope with. But clearly they can't.
Crews were reporting huge waves, Network Rail were reporting huge waves which is why they were accompanying trains over the seawall. The onboard CCTV▸ footage shows the IETs being struck by waves. They are certainly not designed to take wave strikes on the simple basis that the pantograph would be unlikely to withstand a direct hit. |
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 17:06:51 by a-driver »
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1st fan
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« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2023, 17:08:57 » |
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The sea condition at Dawlish yesterday was not "huge waves". It was mostly sea spray blowing over the train. Exactly the sort of conditions I thought it was promised that the IETs▸ could cope with. But clearly they can't.
Crews were reporting huge waves, Network Rail were reporting huge waves which is why they were accompanying trains over the seawall. The onboard CCTV▸ footage shows the IETs being struck by waves. I guess it depends on your definition of huge waves. There is footage here from onboard a train heading into Dawlish. https://www.newsflare.com/video/598286/disruptions-as-waves-whipped-up-by-storm-babet-crash-onto-train-tracks?origin=weather |
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JayMac
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« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2023, 17:42:17 » |
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Crews were reporting huge waves, Network Rail were reporting huge waves which is why they were accompanying trains over the seawall. The onboard CCTV▸ footage shows the IETs▸ being struck by waves.
They are certainly not designed to take wave strikes on the simple basis that the pantograph would be unlikely to withstand a direct hit.
Why then, if conditions were as bad as you contend, were GWR▸ continuing to send IETs through Dawlish? Leading to several sets failing. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2023, 17:46:44 » |
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On another, the driver moved the train on in between large waves stopping when they were going to hit the power car.
What? You're suggesting drivers have the ability and judgement to make a 200 metre long train 'ride the waves'?  Why then, if conditions were as bad as you contend, were GWR▸ continuing to send IETs▸ through Dawlish? Leading to several sets failing.
Answering on behalf of a-driver: Because those in charge of making the decisions were making bad ones. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Mark A
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« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2023, 17:54:20 » |
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There is footage here from onboard a train heading into Dawlish.
Ugh, but at least it's not green water that time. Anyone else feeling sorry for that lift installation at Dawlish? Think someone suggested that it just *might* be a good idea to install it with its back to the prevailing weather but ooh nooooooh.... Mark |
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a-driver
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« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2023, 17:56:59 » |
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Crews were reporting huge waves, Network Rail were reporting huge waves which is why they were accompanying trains over the seawall. The onboard CCTV▸ footage shows the IETs▸ being struck by waves.
They are certainly not designed to take wave strikes on the simple basis that the pantograph would be unlikely to withstand a direct hit.
Why then, if conditions were as bad as you contend, were GWR▸ continuing to send IETs through Dawlish? Leading to several sets failing. That’s a question for GWR. I suspect most staff will be asking the same question. You get a Blue warning for Spray, then Amber for potential level 1 where trains potentially need accompanying through the area and then the highest level which is RED for level 2 where the down main is closed, potential speed restrictions and inspections of infrastructure and structures are required. Red warnings were issued for both Tuesday and Wednesday. CrossCountry had no hesitation in withdrawing services. As for being to dangerous, remember the Pacer unit that sustained several smashed windows? You only need a handful of rogue waves which is why some IETs made it through. |
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1st fan
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« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2023, 18:00:36 » |
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On another, the driver moved the train on in between large waves stopping when they were going to hit the power car.
What? You're suggesting drivers have the ability and judgement to make a 200 metre long train 'ride the waves'? Well that's what he said he was doing and was the reason for the stop/start movement of the train. He might have been talking through his backside but it seemed plausible at the time. There were only the odd wave that was hitting the sea wall with some force and covering the track. It was these he was avoiding. Why then, if conditions were as bad as you contend, were GWR▸ continuing to send IETs▸ through Dawlish? Leading to several sets failing.
Answering on behalf of a-driver: Because those in charge of making the decisions were making bad ones. No surprise there then.  |
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 18:06:43 by 1st fan »
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2023, 18:21:27 » |
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He might have been talking through his backside…
He was 100% talking through his backside/joking/being sarcastic. Perhaps a bit of all three. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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1st fan
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« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2023, 18:35:50 » |
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He might have been talking through his backside…
He was 100% talking through his backside/joking/being sarcastic. Perhaps a bit of all three. Not having driven an HST▸ as slowly as he did, at 125mph or any speed in between  I'll take your word for it. We were stopping very frequently though. |
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