TPE Class 68 and Mk5a withdrawal

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

It’s been confirmed that TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) will be withdrawing all Class 68+Mk 5A Nova 3 sets from the Dec timetable change following a review of the business and to make TPE less complex.

Now, I wonder if Mr H will be expressing an interest in bringing these sets to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to replace the Castle sets. I believe TPE have 12 sets and 16 locos so not only would it be a solution to the Castle sets but you’d also have a more cost effective method of powering the Sleeper allowing the withdrawal of the Class 57.

[IndustryInsider]

Makes a bit of sense.  Though I guess Mr H can express as much of an interest as he likes, but it’ll be down to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).  Presumably TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) have ditched them to reduce costs, as mandated by the DfT, as they will be the most costly fleet that TPE operate?  If they come to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) it’ll be a bit of a u-turn, though a most welcome one.

They’re probably too new to scrap though, so I guess they’ll be found a home somewhere.  Perhaps some of the locos will come to GWR to replace the Class 57s which would be something?

[JayMac]

Indeed. GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should take on Class 68 locos for the Night Riviera at the very least. Having the Mark 5s to replace Castle sets would be a bonus. Nice carriages.

I wonder if the surplus Mark 5A carriages could ultimately be converted to Mark 5 Sleepers. That may be more cost effective than ordering new Sleeper carriages for the Night Riviera when the time comes.

[broadgage]

Or even replace a few of the wretched IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) ? Even a small number of loco hauled sets would help by freeing up IET sets to make other trains full length.

How do passenger comfort and facilities compare with a HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) ?

[IndustryInsider]

Or even replace a few of the wretched IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) ? Even a small number of loco hauled sets would help by freeing up IET sets to make other trains full length.

The IETs now being used on regional services that were being covered by Castles/DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) previously could indeed then be released back to bolstering the ‘main line’ fleet.

Again though, it will need the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to cough up the readies to pay for them at a time they are seemingly hell bent of slashing costs.  It wouldn’t just be the fleet leasing costs,  it would be the cost of adapting maintenance/stabling facilities and the training of staff.

[TaplowGreen]

Or even replace a few of the wretched IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) ? Even a small number of loco hauled sets would help by freeing up IET sets to make other trains full length.

The IETs now being used on regional services that were being covered by Castles/DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) previously could indeed then be released back to bolstering the ‘main line’ fleet.

Again though, it will need the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to cough up the readies to pay for them at a time they are seemingly hell bent of slashing costs.  It wouldn’t just be the fleet leasing costs,  it would be the cost of adapting maintenance/stabling facilities and the training of staff.

..............and given the 30% reduction in fare revenue post COVID, I reckon any additional funding is going to be very hard to come by.

[ChrisB]

You forget that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are cutting the cost of running the railway

[Electric train]

My guess is the Nova 3 sets could be converted into Nova 2 sets Class 397 EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) for the completed TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) electrification, this will leave the class 68's with nothing to haul

[JayMac]

DRS^» (Direct Rail Services Ltd, a national rail freight operator providing a range of services with its head office in Carlisle and depots at the South East, York, Crewe, Sellafield, and Scotland. - about) (the Class 68s owner) would probably find a use for them. Most likely replacing their heritage Classes 37 & 57.

[a-driver]

You forget that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are cutting the cost of running the railway

Perhaps Hitachi should be partly funding the 68’s.  Could enable them to take their IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) out of traffic and get them to a reliable standard and the crack issue resolved sooner. Might be more financially for them.

I think the 150 fleet had to go through works as well, and the work required on 150202 was extensive.  In the short to medium term GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) could be looking at a serious shortage of rolling stock.

[grahame]

You forget that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are cutting the cost of running the railway

Perhaps Hitachi should be partly funding the 68’s.  Could enable them to take their IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train - replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)) out of traffic and get them to a reliable standard and the crack issue resolved sooner. Might be more financially for them.

I think the 150 fleet had to go through works as well, and the work required on 150202 was extensive.  In the short to medium term GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) could be looking at a serious shortage of rolling stock.

Is there strategic long term sense in keeping the production lines for class 196/197 and/or Flirts running to have a smooth, consistent flow of new rolling stock to be replacing Castles (sorry!), 150, 165, 166 and 158 in that order, and moving IETs on regional and local services back to longer distance journeys which they were designed for. 

[TaplowGreen]

Pretty sure I read elsewhere that other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) may be after them? Chiltern?

[ChrisB]

Chiltern are trying to decarbonise, so no more loco hauled I suspect

[a-driver]

Chiltern are trying to decarbonise, so no more loco hauled I suspect

They have recently converted one of their 68’s to run on HVO fuel so it’s kind of decarbonising them

[rogerw]

Perhaps they will be transferred to Scotland to replace the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) that ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) have taken a dislike to