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Poll
Question: Which of the following would you agree with (batch 1)  (Voting closed: July 10, 2023, 13:35:29)
Ticket offices reform IS overdue, but fare systems and alternatives for all should be deal considered first - 22 (20.2%)
Reduction or removal of help, including ticket sales, at a fixed point at a station is a barrier to the timid traveller - 25 (22.9%)
By using ticket machines, customers may end up paying more than they need - 24 (22%)
All staff (not just the former ticket clerks) will need to know all about the fares system - 22 (20.2%)
Although most current users will be able to cope, new users will be put off trying the train - 16 (14.7%)
I agree with none of the above - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 35

Linked Events
  • TWSW online - Ticket Offices: July 11, 2023
  • TWSW online - Ticket Offices: July 12, 2023
  • TWSW online - Ticket Offices: July 14, 2023
  • Consultation EXTENDED: July 26, 2023
  • Ticker Office Consultation end: September 01, 2023
  • Ticket Office outcome: October 31, 2023
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Author Topic: Ticket Office Closure Consultation  (Read 49044 times)
Trowres
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« Reply #165 on: August 18, 2023, 23:17:27 »

Of some relevance to the ongoing debate:


Quote
A blind man has said Easyjet staff at an airport would not sell him a ticket in person and told him to use an app instead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-66541768

Quote
When the couple approached the airport's assistance team for help using the smartphone app "they were busy with various passengers coming in and out".
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Marlburian
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« Reply #166 on: August 19, 2023, 15:06:05 »

I mentioned the proposed closures on my NextDoor neighbourhood forum, prompting a flurry of outraged protests.

Two thoughts:

if the ticket-office man/woman is still going to be deployed around my station, where's the saving that, as I understand it, the Government wants;

when the machine breaks down and if the ambulant staff member cannot sell tickets, I can foresee a number of cross and frustrated passengers.
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ellendune
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« Reply #167 on: August 20, 2023, 08:01:43 »

I mentioned the proposed closures on my NextDoor neighbourhood forum, prompting a flurry of outraged protests.

Two thoughts:

if the ticket-office man/woman is still going to be deployed around my station, where's the saving that, as I understand it, the Government wants;

when the machine breaks down and if the ambulant staff member cannot sell tickets, I can foresee a number of cross and frustrated passengers.

The cycnic in me suggests that when the fuss has died down the staff will be quietly removed to produce the saving. 
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grahame
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« Reply #168 on: August 20, 2023, 08:59:55 »

Mostly behind a paywall at The Telegrah

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Closing down station ticket offices will cause more harm than we realise

Hmm - I wonder who "we" are.   This is written as if from the mind and the voice of the current government by the Daily Torygraph.  We the informed users of public transport know perfectly well it will cause massive harm ...
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ChrisB
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« Reply #169 on: August 20, 2023, 10:45:35 »

The reason that ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) chose September 1 as a strike day - it's the last day of the consultation. From The Mail via MSN

Quote
Transport unions plan mass rally outside Downing Street for the final day of consultation on controversial plans to close railway ticket offices

A protest against railway ticket office closures is to be held on the final day of consultation on the controversial plans.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)) said it will take the fight for the future of ticket offices to the doorstep of Downing Street on August 31.

A mass rally will see RMT members, trades unionists and campaigners tell the Government 'in no uncertain terms' that ticket offices must be saved.

The consultation on the future of ticket offices, which has received nearly 400,000 responses, will close on September 1 and the union is encouraging everyone to take part.

The union said the plans to close up to 1,000 ticket offices will threaten 2,300 station staff job losses.

.....continues at link above
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #170 on: August 20, 2023, 11:11:33 »

The reason that ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) chose September 1 as a strike day - it's the last day of the consultation. From The Mail via MSN

Quote
Transport unions plan mass rally outside Downing Street for the final day of consultation on controversial plans to close railway ticket offices

A protest against railway ticket office closures is to be held on the final day of consultation on the controversial plans.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)) said it will take the fight for the future of ticket offices to the doorstep of Downing Street on August 31.

A mass rally will see RMT members, trades unionists and campaigners tell the Government 'in no uncertain terms' that ticket offices must be saved.

The consultation on the future of ticket offices, which has received nearly 400,000 responses, will close on September 1 and the union is encouraging everyone to take part.

The union said the plans to close up to 1,000 ticket offices will threaten 2,300 station staff job losses.

.....continues at link above

Better not leave it too late to travel home.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #171 on: August 20, 2023, 11:21:37 »

Not sure about that Mail article - RailAdvent [/quote] has it taking place on the 31st, Thursday.

Quote
On 31 August, railway workers will be marching to 10 Downing Street in their fight to save railway ticket offices across the country from being closed and their staff losing their jobs.

A mass rally is being held in which RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) members, trades unionists, and supporters from across the political landscape will tell the government in no uncertain terms that staffed ticket offices are essential and must be saved.

On 31 August, railway workers will be marching to 10 Downing Street in their fight to save railway ticket offices across the country from being closed and their staff losing their jobs.

....continues

1700 Assemble DfT» (Department for Transport - about)
1730 March moves off
1800 Rally outside Downing Street
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johnneyw
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« Reply #172 on: August 23, 2023, 16:17:48 »

I completed the consultation questionnaire online a few days back and received this today by email.  That's quite a large response that they've quoted I'm thinking.  Text below.

Hello,

Thank you very much for taking the time to submit a response to the train companies' ticket office consultations. We have received more than 250,000 responses so far. The submissions we have received will be invaluable and will inform Transport Focus's response to the train companies' proposals.

We are keen to know a bit more about people responding to the consultation. For this reason, it would be helpful if you were able to spend a short time telling us a little more about you.

Please note that what you tell us will be used only for the purpose of understanding more about who is responding to the consultation and that the answers you give us will be anonymised and will not be linked to your previous consultation response.

You are free not to respond if you wish or to withhold specific information by using the 'prefer not to say' options at individual questions. The survey will take no more than 5 minutes to complete.

To continue to the survey click on this link.

Please do not respond to this email as unfortunately we will be unable to reply as we are working flat-out to log the submissions to the consultation so that we can respond to the train companies' proposals. You can find out more about the process on our website via the link below.

https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/train-station-ticket-office-consultation/

Kind regards,

Transport Focus
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stuving
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« Reply #173 on: August 23, 2023, 18:17:31 »

DfT» (Department for Transport - about) have started a new consultation on "Design standards for accessible railway stations: a code of practice". At first sight this means there is a new version of this document, but in fact they are consulting on the existing one (V04 March 2015) in the context of other existing standards and policy statements. (There are links to those and the code itself in the page cited above.)

There's a lot of words, too many to quote in extenso, but here's a couple is paragraphs from the announcement:

Quote
This consultation will seek to understand the impact of existing accessibility standards, determine what more needs to be done to improve rail accessibility for all users on mainline railway stations across Great Britain and reducing the ambiguity for those in the industry working on station infrastructure improvements. The revision looks to reduce ambiguity and simplify the standards set out in the code of practice to continue protecting the interests of all railway passengers when accessing stations. This includes ensuring the cost associated with changes to infrastructure is in line with achieving best value whilst managing public money.

Quote
In addition to the standards in the code, as part of their operating licence, passenger train and station operators, including Network Rail are required to establish and comply with an accessible travel policy (ATP (Automatic Train Protection)). This will state how they will protect the interests of disabled users of their trains and stations. It also commits the operator to meeting their legal obligations in terms of making reasonable adjustments to their services to allow disabled people to use them. For example, by providing an accessible taxi, free of charge, to anyone unable to access a particular station.

Of course we are now primed by events to ask what al this verbiage says about ticket offices. Ther are  a few pages about the design of TOs, and TVMs (Ticket Vending Machine), but I can't see anything setting why they matter. If the very existence of people selling tickets can no longer be assumed, what needs do they meet and can these be defined? That would allow the alternatives (whatever they are) to be assessed against an agreed requirement.

One impression I get (the code alone is 250 pages, and the other sources not much lighter) is that all this concern is weighted towards PRM (Persons with Reduced Mobility), rather than PRAT (people with restricted access to ticketing). If you do look at any of this, you may see why I said (in this thread, I think) that one of the TOCs (Train Operating Company)' motivations for redeploying ticket sellers to other support duties, mainly on platforms, was that they are still far short of the level of PRM support being asked of them by DfT. So are they robbing Peter PRAT to pay Paul PRM?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 22:09:32 by stuving » Logged
ChrisB
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« Reply #174 on: August 23, 2023, 20:29:56 »

The actual page referred is
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/design-standards-for-accessible-railway-stations-a-code-of-practice

and the closing date is over 3 months away on December 1st.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #175 on: August 23, 2023, 20:43:49 »

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Marlburian
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« Reply #176 on: August 23, 2023, 21:04:53 »

Dunno how true the stories were/are, but the cartoon reminds me of people apparently going into their GP surgery for an appointment but being told they have to ring up to make one.

And what advice and help will former ticket-office staff no longer able to sell tickets but deployed elsewhere in/on the station give to customers when the machine(s) aren't working.
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stuving
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« Reply #177 on: August 23, 2023, 22:15:40 »

The actual page referred is

For future reference, the URL in the post did work, but was truncated when the link was clicked on becuse the visible text of the link included "DfT» (Department for Transport - about)", which gets expanded. The effect depends on exactly where you click on the live link text. Another unintended consequence ...
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #178 on: August 23, 2023, 22:47:01 »

Well there's a surprise!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #179 on: August 23, 2023, 22:47:39 »



Hmm. When Bristol Rail Campaign (FoSBR» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site)) tweeted that (or should I say posted it on X?) they credited Private Eye. When RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) posted it 4 hours later, they didn't.
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