Ticket Office Closure Consultation

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

And there’s more detailed GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) station by station stats here:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Thanks. Huge variation! And interesting to note that some of the stations with ticket office sales listed, don't actually have ticket offices as such.

[Oxonhutch]

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)!

[Electric train]

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM!

After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, "Lies - damn lies - and statistics," Benjamin Disraeli, British Prime Minister.

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Government of a certain rosette colour are known for doing passenger use surveys at the time and places they know will give them their best result, allegedly its how the Beeching Report got is passenger use data

[eightonedee]

At Crowthorne, it is claimed that 98.6% of bookings are bought through a non-existent TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)▸ !

Is that right? I checked the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website, which says that it does have machines.

Having commuted through this station most working days for about 20 years before retirement I cannot recall ever seeing one (but it might not be visible from a train). The Steetview of the station from the car park indicates a shelter for one at the northern (left-hand) end of the attached extract that might be one.

I am sure Stuving will know.......!

[stuving]

I am sure Stuving will know.......!

Now, why would I want to go to Crowthorne? And if I did, why would I want to buy a ticket there???

[TaplowGreen]

There was a figure given either in this or the other thread that only 12% of tickets are now sold from ticket offices. Where did that come from? I can't find it now. And is there a breakdown for the remaining 88% between TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), online, and on-train?

It's from the Rail Delivery Group

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/proposals-to-update-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

And there’s more detailed GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) station by station stats here:

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Thanks. Huge variation! And interesting to note that some of the stations with ticket office sales listed, don't actually have ticket offices as such.

I think what I found surprising about the station by station figures was that a lot of larger stations (ie Bath, Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and Parkway, Cheltenham, Oxford) where there are larger ticket offices at the moment and you'd perhaps expect to be retained as "hubs" are tracking below, in some cases well below 12%, and other larger stations such as Exeter, Swindon, Taunton are only just above this figure.

[IndustryInsider]

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people more less likely to buy a walk on fare?

[ChrisB]

In The Grauniad online & probably in tomorrow's print edition

Lindsay Hoyle says rail minister misinformed on ticket office closures
Commons speaker intervenes as MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and unions challenge government plans to close offices across England

The government has been challenged in the Commons over plans to close railway ticket offices, including by the speaker, who told the rail minister that he was being misinformed by train operators.

Labour described the consultation over the proposals to close most ticket offices in England as a “sham” and Conservative MPs also raised concerns, as unions staged demonstrations around the country.

The rail minister, Huw Merriman, sought to reassure MPs over what he said were industry-led proposals to cut costs, with revenue falling after the pandemic.

Merriman said he believed that staff were better deployed on station concourses rather than “behind a glass screen”, adding: “I give the commitment again from the train operators that no currently staffed station will become unstaffed as a result of these changes.”

The comment prompted an unusual intervention from the Commons speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, who highlighted issues in his Chorley constituency.

Sir Lindsay Hoyle told Merriman that at Chorley “the proposal is only to have someone available nine until four, which is half the time the ticket office was [open] … What you are being told isn’t the case.”

The Conservative MP Gagan Mohindra read out a constituent’s email, warning: “By closing the ticket office, you have taken away a focal point of contact. Can the minister reassure us both that those that need assistance will be able to easily locate staff?”

Last week, a number of Conservative MPs highlighted the use of ticket offices at their local stations, while the transport committee chair, Ian Stewart, said there was “alarming evidence” that assistance for vulnerable passengers had declined since the pandemic.

The shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said: “The minister has managed to unite concerns from Labour MPs, his own backbenches, you, Mr Speaker, disability groups, trade unions and consumer groups about these closures.”

She said the consultation was “a sham”, with “just 21 days for people to voice their concerns. No equality impact assessment and no answers on job security, on accessibility, on digital ticketing.”

Campaigners for people with disabilities have protested at the consultation. Sight loss charities including the Thomas Pocklington Trust and the Royal National Institute of Blind People wrote to ministers this week urging a longer period to respond and warning that neither printed nor online forms provided for the consultation were accessible for many blind or partially sighted people.

Elsewhere, unions said plans to close ticket offices were a “fig leaf for redundancies”, as they held dozens of protests outside stations across England on Thursday.

The Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association also took issue with government figures claiming that only 13% of tickets were bought at ticket offices, which it said did not take into account the true impact, including season tickets.

The union’s interim general secretary, Peter Pendle, said the numbers it had uncovered “demonstrate that ticket offices are as popular and vital to the railways as ever”.

He said: “They talk of 13% as though it were a low figure when in fact it relates to hundreds of millions of rail journeys. Talk of modernisation is merely a fig leaf for redundancies and what would be a poorer service for the travelling public at large.”

The Rail Delivery Group, representing train operators, has pledged that there will be more staff outside at stations, and that those with accessibility needs will always be supported, but has insisted that nearly all tickets and services can be bought or accessed online or at machines.

[Bmblbzzz]

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people more less likely to buy a walk on fare?

And people more likely to be using these stations as the start of a longer journey, so more likely to be planned further in advance.

[IndustryInsider]

More widespread availability of advance fares from larger stations, so people more less likely to buy a walk on fare?

And people more likely to be using these stations as the start of a longer journey, so more likely to be planned further in advance.

Yes, that's tied in with my comment and I think it will certainly play a part.

I watched Reading ticket office for ten minutes or so minutes the other day.  Dozens of people served in that short period.  Scheduled to close at the end of next year.

[nickswift99]

After a delay in getting a refund processed for a partly used season ticket which was bought at Reading and the refund request also made there, I was told by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Customer Services that I could only follow up the delay by going to the ticket office as they couldn't deal with refund issues for tickets issued at stations.

The consultation posters imply that all refund issues can be dealt with through Customer Services but, surprise surprise, this isn't the case.

If the posters are significantly misleading, does that not make the consultation void? I seem to recall that this was the fatal flaw in the attempt to close the Settle-Carlisle line?

[ChrisB]

After a delay in getting a refund processed for a partly used season ticket which was bought at Reading and the refund request also made there, I was told by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Customer Services that I could only follow up the delay by going to the ticket office as they couldn't deal with refund issues for tickets issued at stations.

The consultation posters imply that all refund issues can be dealt with through Customer Services but, surprise surprise, this isn't the case.

.....yet. It will be by the time they close the TOs. But I suspect you'll be mailing in (otherwise how will they get the ticket you take back to the TO now), and you know how reliable Royal Mail is these days!! Lost tickets all over the place!

[Bmblbzzz]

It might be different for season tickets but what I've had to do in the past is upload a photo of the ticket cut in half.

[TaplowGreen]

It might be different for season tickets but what I've had to do in the past is upload a photo of the ticket cut in half.

Yes me too and logically that'll be the primary way going forward.........progress! 

[ChrisB]

I had the fortunate opportunity to chat to senior management of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) this lunchtime and learned the following from a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) side of the consultation.

The public consultation is ongoing until July 26th, and during this time, the EIAs for each station which have been lodged with Transport Focus as 'live' documents, will be updated with any relevant info that comes in to the consultation response. These *will* eventually be published, but obviously after the consultation completes.

Transport Focus will consider all relevant responses to their guidance, and take decisions for each station against comparison with GWR proposals as to whether they 'pass' or fail' each test. Transport Focus will then publish these results.

There will then be toing & froing of said document for each station where the TOC will maybe agree to some things more & Transport Focus will again adjudicate. Each TOC will be doing the same, so poor Transport Focus at this time.

There was a set timescale for this toing & froing, but again, the legislation wasn't written for this wholesale act, so an extension has already been agreed to August 31st - and could yet be extended further if either side (RDG^‡(resolve) for the TOCs) requests it. Some of the TOC additions may involve asking the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) for approval to spend additional budget & therefore be dependent on getting approval.

At the end of the exercise, Transport Focus will write to the SoS with the news of the remaining failures across all TOCs, and I understand that this letter will be published. The SoS has the final say on whether they remain failed. That may well be where public pressure on their local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) may have some effect what with the General Election by then being within 12 months.

The TOCs are then to move forward under that SoS decision.

The TOCs are obviously considering changes to what is retailed where, from TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) to online to on-train and where unsure as to what timeline might yet be established with these changes being installed in advance of ticket office closures. That is likely to enter discussions during the toing & froing period.

I hope this assists understanding of said process