Ticket Office Closure Consultation

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

OOOh, this is getting a tad juicy. The ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) has stepped in with a letter to TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company).....

Jacqui Russell
Head of Consumer Team

TOC MDs; and
TOC accessibility leads
[by email]
5 July 2023

Dear Industry Colleagues

Station ticket office reforms

Operators have today published consultations on proposals to make changes to the responsibilities of station staff and to close ticket offices. I am writing to provide an overview of a number potentially relevant regulatory considerations that may be helpful as you refine your plans, and to formally ask you to provide an initial high level review of your proposals against ORR’s Accessible Travel Policy (ATP^▸ (Automatic Train Protection)) guidance.

Changes to ticket office opening hours

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA^▸ (Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.)) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)). Alongside, ORR has a long-term ongoing role in ensuring that passenger interests are protected in key areas, underpinned by licence requirements and consumer law. Under DfT’s guidance, any proposal to close a ticket office is considered to be a major change. Operators must publish details of their proposals, with passengers invited to make representations to Transport Focus (TF) and London TravelWatch (LTW). TF/LTW may then seek amendments to proposals from the operators. Should concerns remain they can raise an objection to the Secretary of State who will make a final decision.

Accessible Travel Policy review

All train and station operators must establish and comply with an ATP as a condition of their licence, setting out their provision for disabled passengers. ATPs must meet the detailed requirements set out in our guidance. While these requirements are particularly relevant to disabled people, such as the provision of assistance to travel, they can equally be applied more widely and, in this context, that includes requirements relating to ticketing and passenger information. The Annex extracts those aspects of the ATP guidance that are potentially relevant to changes to station staffing and ticket offices. To ensure that your ATP remains accurate for passengers and meets the requirements of the ATP guidance we are seeking an initial understanding of the areas where we believe that early engagement on changes will be helpful, including
where we can provide additional clarity or support in this process.

Your response should:
• Provide a high-level summary of the changes that you are proposing to make to ticket offices and station staffing.
• Identify any areas where you anticipate proposing changes to your ATP documents, and where possible outline what those changes would be.
• Identify any other changes that you propose to make at stations to ensure compliance with the ATP guidance, with particular reference to the areas identified in the Annex.
 
We do not expect to request or receive revised ATP documentation until there is more certainty over the changes that may be implemented. The process for revising ATPs will then follow the usual process. As part of this we will expect you to show how you have sought and considered feedback from local groups, and we will consult with DPTAC, Transport Focus and (where relevant) London TravelWatch where any material changes are proposed.

Please contact David Kimball (david.kimball@orr.gov.uk) if you have any queries. We will be inviting operators to a meeting to clarify ATP requirements and the review process, and to offer the opportunity to explore any questions you may
have. Please submit your response to ATP@orr.gov.uk by Friday 21 July.

I am copying this letter to RDG^‡(resolve), DfT, Transport Focus, and London TravelWatch.
 
Yours sincerely
Jacqui Russell

The annex can be found as part of the pdf of this letter here

Fight!

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challanged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp excercise

Although the intent to close ticket offices is not out openly in the public realm, I feel there could be a much slower implementation, given the disconnect between the ORR and DfT on the process also the closures of the ticket offices next year will fall into the lead up to the next General Election, some Conservative MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)'s may be concerned on the local impact of the ticket office(s) in their constancies closing.

However in the longer term ticket offices will close, it may just get delayed ................. well it is the railways we are used to delays 

[Bob_Blakey]

If asked I am not sure I could construct a cogent argument against the Ticket Office closure proposals as long as the job is done properly.

Trouble is I have long regarded the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) & RDG^‡(resolve) as institutionally incompetent.

For starters I don't think the proposals should be implemented unless and until a wholesale revision/simplification of the fares system, along the lines I have written elsewhere in this forum, has been completed.

Also I think the newly accessible Customer Service Agents should have tablets/notebooks which exactly mirror the capabilities of the existing ticket office workstations. What are the chances of that happening? And even if it did would all relevant sites have sufficient bandwidth to provide an acceptable level of service to intending passengers? (No buffering please!)

And I am absolutely convinced that the countrywide (?England) TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) infrastructure needs some serious attention; a common user interface would be a good idea.

[ray951]

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

[stuving]

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

Those are from the bigger set of figures IndustryInsider posted two days ago. They still look very much unofficial to me, unless your source provides better evidence of its source.

[ChrisB]

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challenged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp exercise

As stated by ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) in that letter

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA^▸ (Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.)) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)).

This sets out that a consultation of 21 days is required to change hours in/close ticket offices. So this is set out in law & would require a law change in order to lengthen the period. Of course, the legislation is written to cover the odd, or just a few closures at a time, where 21 days could be considered adequate - not for mass closures on this scale!

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?
In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.
Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

The attached spreadsheet which was posted by II up thread (the validity of which is not proven) seems to bear out your figures.

However, there is/was? a promise of no forced redundancies until the end of 2024 (did that get extended to end 2025?), so perhaps a forecast of future plans depending on the number taking up a voluntary scheme.

I understand that there is a voluntary scheme as part of this package but there has yet been no comment from unions/staff or media that I've yet seen to confirm.

[Electric train]

This and the cross party roasting the Goverment got in Parliment yesterday; the Government were challenged over the short time given for public consultation indeed being accused of a rubber stamp exercise

As stated by ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) in that letter

Changes to ticket office opening hours (including closures) are governed by the processes set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA^▸ (Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.)) and guidance published by the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)).

This sets out that a consultation of 21 days is required to change hours in/close ticket offices. So this is set out in law & would require a law change in order to lengthen the period. Of course, the legislation is written to cover the odd, or just a few closures at a time, where 21 days could be considered adequate - not for mass closures on this scale!

The Act when set up was not designed with the intent of whole safe ticket office closure, the DfT are taking advantage of a loop hole

[ray951]

I have just seen the following posted online:
Staff redundancies at the following stations:
Oxford - 22
Didcot - 10
Reading - 40
Paddington - 50.

If that is just ticket office staff then can I assume (given 2 shifts a day) that all t/o staff at those stations are being made redundant?

In which case who will be helping passengers buy tickets? Presumably cheaper and less knowledgeable ( about tickets) staff.

Sorry making a lot of assumptions, does anybody have the actual facts?

Those are from the bigger set of figures IndustryInsider posted two days ago. They still look very much unofficial to me, unless your source provides better evidence of its source.

Sorry I dont know the original source for this data and I guess it is quite possible that it came from the same s/s as posted by II.

[TaplowGreen]

Here's the Rail Delivery Group's position;

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/customer-focused-reform/customer-focused-stations?twclid=2-70sgupd2cdvi3u8uh11n840ah&s=09

[TonyK]

TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) do not sell the full range of tickets, and if you can purchase on line, often 7 days notice is required plus a postage fee.

Young people like me know how to store tickets on our phones or order online and pick up from the TVM, so avoiding delay and postage fees. I still have a plastic senior railcard, though.

[bleeder4]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) had a notice up at Bristol Parkway when I was there this morning. If the T/O changes go ahead as planned the opening times for the office there will be half an hour shorter in the morning and half an hour shorter in the evening but no changes at all otherwise.

Dave

That's not what their website says.
https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/Changes-to-Ticket-Retailing-at-GWR-Stations-v2.pdf

Bristol Parkway is on page 9 and says the following:

"Proposed changes - Oct 2023-Jun 2024

Colleagues move closer to customers in other locations at the station to
support and assist with ticket purchases.  Ticket Office windows close."

[stuving]

Colleagues move closer to customers in other locations at the station to
support and assist with ticket purchases.  Ticket Office windows close."

Mick Lynch has been going on about ticket office staff getting redundancy notices. AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), that's because their current jobs cease to exist - the definition of redundancy in this context. If alternative roles are intended, they need to be agreed in each case and a new employment contract signed.

Obviously that's a very similar process to dismissing staff to reduce numbers, making it easy to talk about "what is really intended" and very hard to know what that actually is.

[ChrisB]

My understanding of this is that a statutory notice of possible redundancies has been issued to the unions as required by legislation in cases like this that has wholesale reorganisation. If all staff either accept the voluntary scheme offered or a new post, none are likely. No staff member has had any notice of redundancy at all.

Can anyone confirm that a voluntary redundancy scheme is there for any ticket office staff that want to avail themselves? I've seen indications of it, but no actual confirmation of a scheme existing.

[IndustryInsider]

There is a role in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) for anyone who wants one.

It might not be a role they want, and in the future it will definitely mean a lower headcount.

[ChrisB]

Mick Whelan, ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) General Secretary tweeted this earlier....

[ChrisB]

There's also a petition running (since April, it seems?) to "Require train operators keep ticket offices and platform staff at train stations" - it has only reached just over 26,000 in that time.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/636542