Boxing Day services - request from GWR for local group input

[whole diary]

[infoman]

I would have thought most of the travellers would be on free passes.

[ChrisB]

Infoman

I refer you to your often-made comment to me!

If you can’t be civil, please press ‘ignore’ button or don’t choose to read.

Sorry mate, but I’m never as rude as you have been above

[grahame]

Edit Thank you, Infoman, for editing your comments which had come across badly. -- graham

[grahame]

First stab at a reply ... based on inputs so far. Comments welcome.


Should GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) run trains on Boxing Day? If so, what service, who would use them, and what should be done about all the engineering works going on at the time?

The question was asked of the "Coffee Shop Forum" members - a passenger forum covering the GWR territory, and over 40 of our members answered at http://gwr.passenger.chat/27419

1. 76% of respondents said that trains SHOULD run , 22% no service and 2% "don't know".

2. Travel to and from sporting fixtures, sales and family gatherings. Mostly day return journeys over medium to longer distance, but some single journeys as people move on from one Christmas visit to another or start or end family visits.

2a. There has been a great deal of discussion of this over the years on the forum, and a number of our members would use the services themselves. I would be reasonably comfortable to suggest that marketed appropriatly, and tuned for the markets described, would be well used. These are, however, markets which are sensitive to fare levels and the day could present a real promotion opportunity to those who are not normally rail users rather than a "squeeze as much income as possible" day.

3. 80% of respondents who said trains should run opted for a Sunday service (other options of weekday service, strikeday service and something else shared the remaining votes). However there are a number of write-in qualifications which are worthy of a read.

4. Little comment was made on engineering works. Past experience of the markets concerned suggests that people would prefer to stay on a train with a longer diversion route in preference to a bus service.   Marketed well ahead, major station closures (your Paddington example) could be acceptable provided that passenger alternatives were provided.  You at GWR are experts at this - the Elizabeth line would seem a logical alternative there.  Bristol Temple Meads - perhaps Lawrence Hill calls?   No comment on longer closures at other times of possibly busier travel; planned carefully, perhaps Boxing Day service would be busier anyway.

[old original]

One point on the engineering side of things...
If a service is to run with bus substitution somewhere on route, what would the possibility of getting said replacement buses on Boxing Day?

[ChrisB]

The service wouldn’t run, unless a diversion was possible. That is a main reason they don’t currentky try & run

[grahame]

Now that the poll has closed, I have submitted our response.  Page 2 of questions turned out to be just name and email address.  Input has been validated via a confirmation email and I like the way that that survey software confirm my answers in a .pdf to be sure of what I / we had said. 

Thank you everyone for helping with putting our passenger views forward to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  It will likely appear to have gone into a fog for a while, but this is something we can pick up again with GWR later in the year.  I would be amazed at much change for Christmas 2023, but perhaps for 2024 ... who knows? ...

[IndustryInsider]

I can’t see the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) paying for it TBH^▸ (to be honest).  Perhaps the Elizabeth Line as they are all DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) Boxing Day work is already included within their terms and conditions of the drivers.

[TaplowGreen]

I can’t see the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) paying for it TBH^▸ (to be honest).  Perhaps the Elizabeth Line as they are all DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) Boxing Day work is already included within their terms and conditions of the drivers.

Do you not think it would be profitable (or at least relatively revenue neutral?) to run (for example) a Sunday service on key routes on Boxing Day?

[ChrisB]

Depends on which day that Boxing Day falls on.

If a Friday or weekend, then the following day(s) are also babk holidays & few people will want to travel (footie supporters alone won’t be sufficidnt in my view) before they need to.

If Boxing Day falls on any other weekday, then the following day is a workdY for most, & take up of seats will be very heavy in order to work the following day

[IndustryInsider]

I can’t see the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) paying for it TBH^▸ (to be honest).  Perhaps the Elizabeth Line as they are all DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) Boxing Day work is already included within their terms and conditions of the drivers.

Do you not think it would be profitable (or at least relatively revenue neutral?) to run (for example) a Sunday service on key routes on Boxing Day?

I doubt it would be profitable hence why I said that I don’t think the DfT will want to pay for it.  Many services are not profitable on normal days of the week, and I would expect staff would need to be offered triple time in order to get enough volunteers in.  I think the DfT would rather have crowding on the day after Boxing Day than pay to split the numbers over both days.

I don’t think the extra journeys that will be made (i.e. not abstracted from the following day) would justify the cost from their perspective. 

For clarity, I think there should be a more widespread Boxing Day service from a social perspective, and I agree with ChrisB that the day of the week it falls on can sway the argument from one year to the next.

[TaplowGreen]

Depends on which day that Boxing Day falls on.

If a Friday or weekend, then the following day(s) are also babk holidays & few people will want to travel (footie supporters alone won’t be sufficidnt in my view) before they need to.

If Boxing Day falls on any other weekday, then the following day is a workdY for most, & take up of seats will be very heavy in order to work the following day

Yes that sounds about right.

[TaplowGreen]

I have received a survey email from Jane Jones at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway):

I am asking for a bit of help.  As you will know we do not currently operate any rail services on Christmas Day or Boxing Day.
 
We are having a look to see if we should be trying to offer some Boxing Day services.  We know that December 27th is a much heavier travel day for people returning home after visiting friends and family, or even for travel to shops and for entertainment but we want to test views on Boxing Day services.   I am therefore contacting a number of local groups including business and rail users to see what you think.
 
I have put together a short survey via Tractivity, which you can access here - but please feel to add more comments.  We would need DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) support to be able to offer the services, so there is no guarantee that we could make the change, but your views will help to inform how we go forward.

I have until 30th April to respond via a form which looks like a personalised URL. So I am not sharing that here, but rather looking for a combined Coffee Shop input; I will write up based on inputs and discussions here.

Page 1 of 2 asks

1. Do you think we should introduce some rail services on Boxing Day?

2. Who do you think would use services on Boxing Day?
2a. If you answered Yes - Do you have any evidence/reports that would support your view?
2b. If you answered No – why do you think they would not be helpful

3. Do you have any thoughts about which routes/services should be the priority if we do introduce Boxing Day services? Please let us know why you think these would be good options

4. Network Rail use the closure of the railway over Christmas to complete intensive improvement work. Would you still support Boxing Day services if
 a) They included the use of diversionary routes or replacement rail buses
 b) It meant that improvement work was extended on to other possibly busier travel dates
 c) If key routes or stations – such as London Paddington were closed

Page 2 of 2 ... I have NOT advanced the survey so I don't know the questions.  I don't want to risk loosing the opportunity to enter by advancing if this is indeed a single shot survey, but bearing in mind the nature f questions 1 to 4 it'll be along the lines of "would you like feedback" rather than being substantive extra data requests.

I am really happy that we are being asked ... rather than this coming up too-late before Christmas and then resulting in disquiet for a few days before being forgotten about again.  Even if you are a cynic who feels that the question is being asked just to tick a "consultation" box, it IS worth us answering - showing interest and having this on the agenda and in the thoughts of GWR, DfT, GBR^▸ (Great British Railways), etc

Given that there are no Boxing Day services this year (again), I wonder what the overall response to this survey was like?

[ChrisB]

I imagine theat they thought that the industrial action would have been solved by then, then? No point in inviting trouble when you don't need to by trying to run services when you aren't expected to?

[TaplowGreen]

Graham - I seem to recall you kindly offered to seek the outcome of this survey from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and how the feedback was going to be taken forward - any news?