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Poll
Question: Do you think we should introduce some rail services on Boxing Day?  (Voting closed: April 28, 2023, 09:44:07)
Normal service - 2 (4.5%)
Sunday service - 26 (59.1%)
Service similar to Strike days - 2 (4.5%)
Some other service (please follow up) - 2 (4.5%)
No service - 11 (25%)
Don't know - 1 (2.3%)
Don't care - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 44

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Author Topic: Boxing Day services - request from GWR for local group input  (Read 7644 times)
grahame
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« on: April 21, 2023, 09:44:07 »

I have received a survey email from Jane Jones at GWR (Great Western Railway):

Quote
I am asking for a bit of help.  As you will know we do not currently operate any rail services on Christmas Day or Boxing Day.
 
We are having a look to see if we should be trying to offer some Boxing Day services.  We know that December 27th is a much heavier travel day for people returning home after visiting friends and family, or even for travel to shops and for entertainment but we want to test views on Boxing Day services.   I am therefore contacting a number of local groups including business and rail users to see what you think.
 
I have put together a short survey via Tractivity, which you can access here - but please feel to add more comments.  We would need DfT» (Department for Transport - about) support to be able to offer the services, so there is no guarantee that we could make the change, but your views will help to inform how we go forward.

I have until 30th April to respond via a form which looks like a personalised URL. So I am not sharing that here, but rather looking for a combined Coffee Shop input; I will write up based on inputs and discussions here.

Page 1 of 2 asks

1. Do you think we should introduce some rail services on Boxing Day?

2. Who do you think would use services on Boxing Day?
2a. If you answered Yes - Do you have any evidence/reports that would support your view?
2b. If you answered No – why do you think they would not be helpful

3. Do you have any thoughts about which routes/services should be the priority if we do introduce Boxing Day services? Please let us know why you think these would be good options

4. Network Rail use the closure of the railway over Christmas to complete intensive improvement work. Would you still support Boxing Day services if
 a) They included the use of diversionary routes or replacement rail buses
 b) It meant that improvement work was extended on to other possibly busier travel dates
 c) If key routes or stations – such as London Paddington were closed

Page 2 of 2 ... I have NOT advanced the survey so I don't know the questions.  I don't want to risk loosing the opportunity to enter by advancing if this is indeed a single shot survey, but bearing in mind the nature f questions 1 to 4 it'll be along the lines of "would you like feedback" rather than being substantive extra data requests.

I am really happy that we are being asked ... rather than this coming up too-late before Christmas and then resulting in disquiet for a few days before being forgotten about again.  Even if you are a cynic who feels that the question is being asked just to tick a "consultation" box, it IS worth us answering - showing interest and having this on the agenda and in the thoughts of GWR, DfT, GBR (Great British Railways), etc
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2023, 09:52:27 »

I replied in favour of Sunday services.
Personally I am highly unlikely to use them but I can see benefit for family visits / post Christmas returns, and for city visits such as football matches and Boxing Day sales..
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GBM
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2023, 10:35:49 »

Voted no service.
Good to have staff with two actual Christmas days off.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2023, 10:51:00 »

Sunday service if there can be assurance that crew shortage won't scupper it and ruin customers plans.......I appreciate that "if" is doing some pretty heavy lifting there.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2023, 11:18:07 »

I replied in favour of Sunday services.
Personally I am highly unlikely to use them but I can see benefit for family visits / post Christmas returns, and for city visits such as football matches and Boxing Day sales..

Pretty much my view. Well, other than the bit about football matches obvs.
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bobm
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2023, 11:24:08 »

It is partly a cyclical thing.  Where the 26th December falls on a weekend and the bank holiday is moved to the 27th or 28th there is less pressure for people returning from Christmas away to start work on the 27th.  However on the years when the day after Boxing Day is nominally a working day there might be case from holiday destinations.

Where shops are open there are workers who need to get there.  We see a number on the early Sunday TransWilts service to Swindon - no reason to suppose they wouldn't use it on Boxing Day - especially with no local buses in most areas.
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2023, 12:50:00 »

I would support a Boxing Day service.
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2023, 12:52:07 »

So we are talking here about Boxing day on Wednesday 27 December?

As I am a big football fan,
can persons stop running away with the idea that football followers in the Greater western Region area travel to away games by train.

I travel to all away games by train,and I rarely see more that TWENTY Bristol City followers travelling on cross country trains and lots of them are on railway pass's

football match's will be played on Saturday 23rd December,and I would expect that most clubs will wanna play on the Tuesday(26 december)
to prepare for games on the weekend of saturday 30th december.

I presume this is a GWR (Great Western Railway) questionare,so this will not concern cross country trains.

The only teams that Bristol City could be playing on GWR's patch are Millwall QPR Reading Cardiif Swansea and Plymouth.

As most of the votes look like a yes to a Sunday service,I would prefer an input into the departure times,what ever the majority would like,and the calling points.
maybe a 05:00am service from Bristol Parkway to BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) bath chippenham Swindon didcot reading and Paddington.
Then a gap to approx 07:00am
 
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broadgage
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2023, 12:57:46 »

I am in a small minority in voting for no trains on boxing day.

I would like Boxing day to be a proper public holiday, with the following prohibited from opening.
Supermarkets and other large store, as defined under Sunday trading rules.
Large scale or professional sporting events, any event that needs paid staff, or for which an admission charge is made.
Theatres, cinemas, and circus type events.
Nightclubs and the like.

I would allow the following to open.
Places of worship, provided that no admission charge is made.
Local sporting or cultural events provided that no paid staff are engaged and that no admission charge is made.
Pubs and restaurants, provided that no admission charge is made.

Time to make boxing day a "proper" public holiday with only essential workers in utilities, the emergency services  and the like being expected to work.
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2023, 16:26:36 »

So we are talking here about Boxing day on Wednesday 27 December?

As I am a big football fan,
can persons stop running away with the idea that football followers in the Greater western Region area travel to away games by train.

I travel to all away games by train,and I rarely see more that TWENTY Bristol City followers travelling on cross country trains and lots of them are on railway pass's

football match's will be played on Saturday 23rd December,and I would expect that most clubs will wanna play on the Tuesday(26 december)
to prepare for games on the weekend of saturday 30th december.

I presume this is a GWR (Great Western Railway) questionare,so this will not concern cross country trains.

The only teams that Bristol City could be playing on GWR's patch are Millwall QPR Reading Cardiif Swansea and Plymouth.

As most of the votes look like a yes to a Sunday service,I would prefer an input into the departure times,what ever the majority would like,and the calling points.
maybe a 05:00am service from Bristol Parkway to BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) bath chippenham Swindon didcot reading and Paddington.
Then a gap to approx 07:00am
 

Interesting to read about the low numbers on Crosscountry, I reckon I could name up to 20 people alone that I know that go to all away games by train, and are often on Crosscountry services

As for Boxing Day, I know that the Taunton to Temple Meads corridor (stopping service) would be of a MASSIVE benefit if Bristol City were playing at home on Boxing Day

As for the mention above about people being given two days off over Christmas, I'm never sure why it is assumed that people do want these days off
Many people don't have families etc, and would be more than willing to work, and then you can take into account all the ethnic staff that don't celebrate Christmas that would be able to work
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didcotdean
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2023, 17:37:47 »

The history. When BR (British Rail(ways)) first decided to axe Boxing Day services in 1975 it was criticised by ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) as a potential precedent for running no trains on any Bank Holiday. "Very nice for our members but a bad move for passengers", said Ray Buckton. That year Boxing Day fell on Friday and the thinking then was that trains would not be used as people would stay where they were through to the weekend. Trains were back three years later but were cut again when Boxing Day was next on Friday and have never come back with a widespread service since.

The service that was run before that period was common for other Bank Holidays, ie a normal service but with a later start and the peaks thinned out. It is hard to judge when a service hasn't been provided for so long as to what the demand might be but a Sunday service wouldn't be a bad place to experiment from.

The last time a Christmas Day service was run in the Western Region was 1961.
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Hafren
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2023, 19:28:19 »

It's good to have a day that culturally is a 'quiet' day - I don't think Sundays tick that box any more – and given many people only have 2/3 days for a weekend, Sunday travel is necessary. So perhaps Boxing Day is the last opportunity for enforced serenity.

But there are many reasons to need to travel - not least people in essential jobs getting work, let alone those who don't want to have to choose which side of the family web to visit. Could argue the same for Xmas day itself of course, but one day having to make other arrangements is less hardship than two.

I nearly went for Strike Days but it could probably do with being a bit better than that. Perhaps a similarly minimal service, but covering a bit less tight – more routes, somewhat longer day, in order to present realistic travel opportunities. And tailor it to local demand needs such as sporting events and maybe even key shopping destinations, although I think there's a strong case for a cultural shift to not having that sort of thing on boxing day (see above) – keep essential local shops open, but not the big shopping 'destinations'.

It's hard to judge demand, of course. Perhaps some people will just assume no service for the first two years; having said that, I've known people to be surprised to check NRE(resolve) and find nothing, several years in a row, so who knows! Where TOCs (Train Operating Company) ran limited services I think the reports were that demand was low, but it would be different if a bigger range of connections became available as more journeys would be possible.

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didcotdean
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2023, 20:57:20 »

I nearly went for Strike Days but it could probably do with being a bit better than that. Perhaps a similarly minimal service, but covering a bit less tight – more routes, somewhat longer day, in order to present realistic travel opportunities. And tailor it to local demand needs such as sporting events and maybe even key shopping destinations, although I think there's a strong case for a cultural shift to not having that sort of thing on boxing day (see above) – keep essential local shops open, but not the big shopping 'destinations'.
The Southern Region was the last to run anything like a widespread Christmas Day service across their patch in the 1960s and it was at a level of around half the Sunday service for a period in the middle of the day that could be accommodated by one shift turn following the agreements of the time. Certainly has echoes of the recent strike service. Not sure such a really early finish would make a Boxing Day service worthwhile though today.
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2023, 11:10:51 »

Some Other Service

Completely dependent upon the results of a comprehensive potential passenger survey but probably a few reasonably early morning and early(ish) evening trains to cover family & friends visits and sporting event attendance with, possibly, limited 'lunchtime' services to take care of half-day trips.

And if that can't be done without signalling and station staff being required to work all day then do that and run a mainly two-hourly interval service between 0800 & 2000 or thereabouts.
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RichardB
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2023, 07:53:29 »

I'd certainly like to see a Boxing Day service and would most likely use it too.  Plymouth - Ealing Broadway for a Brentford home match.  Boxing Day is very much like a regular Sunday in terms of what is open generally and I don't think the transport system should be any different.   My vote is for a Sunday service.   
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