MP - expenses - first class travel

[whole diary]

[onthecushions]

Empathy isn't much use if your MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) can't do the job effectively.

MP's spend much of their time on constituents' personal problems.

The reason that MP's are now paid is to allow those without private means (i.e Labour) to serve.

They are still not paid enough to be truly independent, particularly in SW1/division bell accommodation and so are prey to the influence of wealthy MP's.

We get what we pay for.

OTC

[TaplowGreen]

Empathy isn't much use if your MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) can't do the job effectively.

MP's spend much of their time on constituents' personal problems.

The reason that MP's are now paid is to allow those without private means (i.e Labour) to serve.

They are still not paid enough to be truly independent, particularly in SW1/division bell accommodation and so are prey to the influence of wealthy MP's.

We get what we pay for.

OTC

You genuinely feel that an MP can't do their job effectively without the provision of full fare first class rail tickets?

God knows how the rest of us manage, but we seem to.

[ChrisB]

A lot of their work consists of making phone calls. Many confidential

[TaplowGreen]

A lot of their work consists of making phone calls. Many confidential

As do Solicitors, Doctors, Servicemen and a whole host of others. Like most of the population, they seem to manage without hitting the public purse for the most expensive category of rail ticket available.

At a time when many are struggling to even put food on the table, more than ever, more than anyone else, MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) should be setting an example.

[ChrisB]

And you can imagine the absolute furore should they be overheard!

No, I’m with OTC on this. There are many other expenses they claim that they shouldn’t though! This is pne that needs allowing

[TaplowGreen]

And you can imagine the absolute furore should they be overheard!

No, I’m with OTC on this. There are many other expenses they claim that they shouldn’t though! This is pne that needs allowing

Bizarre.

That said, having checked the IPSA website,  in fact MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) can only claim as follows....

"For journeys made by rail, reimbursement will be limited to the rate of an "anytime standard open" ticket for the journey prevalent at the time of the claim. [9.15]

MPs travelling on sleeper train services are additionally entitled to claim for a sleeper supplement for a single occupancy berth. [9.16]"

They can, in fact,  only claim for 1st class fares if they're cheaper than the standard open fare......possible on advance fares perhaps? Or is that not realistic?

[Trowres]

And you can imagine the absolute furore should they be overheard!

Are you suggesting that they cannot be overheard in first class, or that being overheard in first class has no consequence?

[IndustryInsider]

They can, in fact,  only claim for 1st class fares if they're cheaper than the standard open fare......possible on advance fares perhaps? Or is that not realistic?

I’m glad you pointed that out, as Broadgage had suggested it earlier in the thread to rather deaf ears, and I was about to say that I thought that was the case these days.

However, there will no doubt be some (plenty?) of occasions when a first class advance comes in cheaper than the full standard fare.

[Electric train]

They can, in fact,  only claim for 1st class fares if they're cheaper than the standard open fare......possible on advance fares perhaps? Or is that not realistic?

I’m glad you pointed that out, as Broadgage had suggested it earlier in the thread to rather deaf ears, and I was about to say that I thought that was the case these days.

However, there will no doubt be some (plenty?) of occasions when a first class advance comes in cheaper than the full standard fare.

I agree

MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s expenses are monitored they can only claim what is deemed to be reasonable and will have guidance on what they can claim.

For an MP that has several hours travel back to their constituency travelling First Class and being able to work in comfort in my my mind is justifiable use of public money; we after all expect our MP's to work on out behalf and to be visible in the constituency, they would soon be slatted for living in London and never going back to Cornwall, Lancaster ................... etc.

   

[TaplowGreen]

They can, in fact,  only claim for 1st class fares if they're cheaper than the standard open fare......possible on advance fares perhaps? Or is that not realistic?

I’m glad you pointed that out, as Broadgage had suggested it earlier in the thread to rather deaf ears, and I was about to say that I thought that was the case these days.

However, there will no doubt be some (plenty?) of occasions when a first class advance comes in cheaper than the full standard fare.

I agree

MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s expenses are monitored they can only claim what is deemed to be reasonable and will have guidance on what they can claim.

For an MP that has several hours travel back to their constituency travelling First Class and being able to work in comfort in my my mind is justifiable use of public money; we after all expect our MP's to work on out behalf and to be visible in the constituency, they would soon be slatted for living in London and never going back to Cornwall, Lancaster ................... etc.

   

Most MPs live in London during the week - they claim allowances to cover this or their constituency home.

It's vanishingly rare for the Commons to sit on a Friday so it's pretty easy for an MP to plan their journey and book an advance ticket if they are travelling back to their constituency by rail, and indeed for their return to London  -  I believe the patronage of MPs is one of the reasons the Riviera Sleeper has survived!

If, and only if, it's cheaper to travel First class in the circumstances described in the regulations then obviously this should be permitted for the sake of the public purse.

Otherwise, they should take the opportunity to enjoy the company of us mere mortals for a few hours, who after all are paying their wages......and expenses.

[Red Squirrel]

Having just caught up with this thread, I’m looking forward to seeing Rishi Sunak arriving at No.10 in his new prime ministerial beige Toyota Yaris.

[IndustryInsider]

You do of course reach the point where you need to provide enough of an incentive for talented people to want to become MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s in the first place.  The annual salary is very low (£85k) compared with similar jobs people of the required talent can get in the private sector.  Some form of perks for the job are necessary and inevitable, otherwise you simply won’t get MP’s that are good enough.

Whilst public money should not be squandered I personally have no problem with what current guidelines state in that if a first class advance is cheaper than the standard single that should be allowed, and indeed encouraged where possible as it does provide a better work environment.

[JayMac]

You do of course reach the point where you need to provide enough of an incentive for talented people to want to become MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s in the first place.  The annual salary is very low (£85k) compared with similar jobs people of the required talent can get in the private sector.  Some form of perks for the job are necessary and inevitable, otherwise you simply won’t get MP’s that are good enough.

The basic MP salary is over twice the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s average annual salary, plus already generous expenses that give an average cost to the public purse of over £200,000 per MP. That's plenty enough already. If MPs or prospective MPs can't get by on that then tough. Stand down or don't stand. If their talent is valued by the private sector and that's where the money is, go there.

I don't buy the talent argument. There's been precious little of it on show in recent years.

This is public service. Not a gravy train.

[onthecushions]

In my job before retirement, we were expensed with first class rail fares and were a lot less important to the country than MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)'s.

When that was ended, we just went by car, avoiding the standard class scrum.

My HSBC CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) gets £5M a year. Paying MP's £85k/yr in SW1 is a recipe for incompetence and corruption.

Singapore shows the way pay by paying premium rates for the public service (and expecting performance).

OTC

[Marlburian]

You do of course reach the point where you need to provide enough of an incentive for talented people to want to become MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s in the first place.  The annual salary is very low (£85k) compared with similar jobs people of the required talent can get in the private sector.  Some form of perks for the job are necessary and inevitable, otherwise you simply won’t get MP’s that are good enough.

The basic MP salary is over twice the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s average annual salary, plus already generous expenses that give an average cost to the public purse of over £200,000 per MP. That's plenty enough already. If MPs or prospective MPs can't get by on that then tough. Stand down or don't stand. If their talent is valued by the private sector and that's where the money is, go there.

I don't buy the talent argument. There's been precious little of it on show in recent years.

This is public service. Not a gravy train.

And who would replace them? People of less ability whose talents are insufficient to be valued enough by the private sector? I would be prepared to see an MP's salary approaching £100K provided they didn't take outside work - such as several were prepared to do recently: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mps-ask-10k-29551052.