"Tickets not available"

[whole diary]

[Clan Line]

My daughter was planning to travel from Kent to Warminster today. She had to cancel at the last minute - but the planned journey has come up with something I do not understand.

She checked the train times/fares a few days ago and found a service from Kent via WAE/WAT to WMN^» (Warminster - next trains) on a Super Off Peak Return ticket...............but it said "via Southampton". This struck me as a bit odd - so I checked it online and it was there exactly as she had said. She intended to buy her ticket from the machine on her local station (often not manned) on the day of departure.
Last night I checked that the trains were still running OK and found that her chosen route now said "tickets not available". I could not find any fares quoted for her planned jouney.

Question: If I had not checked the status of her chosen train - what would have happened if she had purchased a Super Off Peak ticket (as the web site had told her a few days previously) and boarded this train ? I have now been told that "via SOU" is not a valid route so, she would not have had a valid ticket. A £100 Penalty fare + £?? to make the ticket valid ..............who knows ? That is assuming that the Guard/gate staff would have had a clue as to what was going on either!

She would have had absolutely no proof that she bought her ticket in good faith - and I also checked that this fare/route was valid. I assumed it was valid as the reduced service from WAT to SAL, (because of the problems at Hook) now meant that it was actually quicker to do this journey via SOU - no 58 min wait at SAL !

I have told her take a screen shot of any fares/routes that she is "offered" on the web in future.

Has anyone come across this sort of thing before ? or can offer an insight as to what is/was going on ?

[ChrisB]

She would have had absolutely no proof that she bought her ticket in good faith - and I also checked that this fare/route was valid. I assumed it was valid as the reduced service from WAT to SAL, (because of the problems at Hook) now meant that it was actually quicker to do this journey via SOU - no 58 min wait at SAL !

I have told her take a screen shot of any fares/routes that she is "offered" on the web in future.

Yes, she would - the ticket itself. If she'd had the ticket sold by a TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) or ticket office, that is a contract to travel. The route would almost certainly have been printed on the ticket. If it wasn't available then the 'offer' would have been said to have been withdrawn & she would have had to choose an available ticket at point of purchase.

[Clan Line]

Yes, you are probably correct to a degree, but your response almost seems to imply that you should take a legal advisor with you before setting out on a train journey. Perhaps my daughter should get a "two together" card.

You are answering my question from the same viewpoint as I was when I "queried" her statement regarding travel via SOU - you and I both have some experience of the peculiarities of the ticket system. My daughter, like the overwhelming majority of rail travellers, is not quite so au fait with the ticketing jungle.

She had been told by a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) website that a £48.60 ticket would take her to WMN^» (Warminster - next trains) via SOU.  I had checked that on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) websites and found that to be correct. Why, then a couple of days later, should she have to read all the small print on her ticket as to what route she can use - having already been told that ? Also, I would hazard a guess and say that the ticket might well have carried the usual meaningless statement about "valid on any permitted route" (talk about blindingly obvious) ..............totally useless to the average rail traveller ! Routes printed on tickets are invariably sketchy to say the least. Would it have said NOT valid via SOU (or Weymouth ?) - more likely to have said via SAL, which it still was !

The web tells would-be passengers to check valid routes on the National Rail website -  I did just that - and was told the route and fare, on the day in question, were both valid. Why check two days later that they still are valid ? The web also tells would be passengers that they can check on the National Routing Guide................how many people have even heard of that document, let alone how to use it ? ("PLEASE NOTE this guide is of necessity a complex document" - from the ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) website !) OR to ask the Ticket Seller (if there is one there). I did ask the very competent lady at WMN station this morning - she couldn't explain it either, but did (after a lot of keyboard bashing) offer a multi ticket route via SOU for £85.............NR couldn't offer any fare.

Had I not double checked her designated train (just to see if it was still running) my daughter could well have ended up putting forward a seemingly “the dog ate my homework” excuse - when a hungry dog actually did………………and still have got a large bill !!

[ChrisB]

You forget that checking  a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) website for a fare only means that the fare is available at time of checking and/or purchasing.

Same for any retail website - the cost may change at any time.

Tickets also have a validity - as does any ticket to travel. If you don't travel in the validity period, it is null & void. Thus, you need to specify (at least) the outward date at time of purchase, from which the validity period of the outward would start. Some tickets have to be started on the date of outward travel, some (singles?) are valid for 3 days including the specified date.

All this covers most/all of what you are discussing. It's the same for any travel tickets.

I do suspect that the ticket had added validity while the disruption on the SW main line was ongoing, and that got removed between the time your daughter looked it up & the time she went to buy the ticket/checked it a second time. Again, similar things happen across travel.

Had I not double checked her designated train (just to see if it was still running) my daughter could well have ended up putting forward a seemingly “the dog ate my homework” excuse - when a hungry dog actually did………………and still have got a large bill !!

She wouldn't, because she wouldn't have been able to purchase the 'wrong' ticket as it was no longer available for sale at the time she would have been buying it.

[Mark A]

Slightly off-topic: use the National Rail site to look for returns from say Ashford International to Warminster and the site's pretty much reduced to tears, with liberal routings via Southampton on offer, combined with ample helpings of 'No fares available for this journey' and, when other tickets is selected, 'Sorry, service error'.

The days of well used, secure, reliable and comfortable through trains, running at convenient times between Waterloo and Bristol - that even set out with a well-stocked catering trolley - that feels like a long time ago.

Mark

[Trowres]

Slightly off-topic: use the National Rail site to look for returns from say Ashford International to Warminster and the site's pretty much reduced to tears, with liberal routings via Southampton on offer, combined with ample helpings of 'No fares available for this journey' and, when other tickets is selected, 'Sorry, service error'.

The £80.40 fare is "any permitted" route, with a Maltese Cross indicating valid for travel between London Terminals.

It is hard to understand why it is valid Ashford-Waterloo East-Waterloo-Basingstoke-Warminster
also valid via Ashford-St Pancras-Paddington-Westbury-Warminster

but NOT valid via Ashford-St Pancras-Waterloo-Basingstoke-Warminster (at least, the Nat Rail JP thinks there isn't a valid ticket, which is the "de facto" indication of a lack of validity).

 

[eXPassenger]

It is hard to understand why it is valid Ashford-Waterloo East-Waterloo-Basingstoke-Warminster
also valid via Ashford-St Pancras-Paddington-Westbury-Warminster

but NOT valid via Ashford-St Pancras-Waterloo-Basingstoke-Warminster (at least, the Nat Rail JP thinks there isn't a valid ticket, which is the "de facto" indication of a lack of validity).

It is interesting to know how the lack of validity would be identified as the only difference is in central London where the Maltese cross indicates acceptance between London terminals.