High Speed Train Replacement

[whole diary]

[Chris2]

As I see that the department for transport is putting out to tender for a replacement to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)).

What do people want the replacement to be good at and what facilities would you like on board? ( for example at seat catering, buffet car, electronic seat reservations or automatic doors) I am sure there are other suggestions and should be an interesting topic.

As I live in Cornwall with low track speeds I would be grateful if the replacement train had improved acceleration and automatic doors to decrease journey times on my regular commute.

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

I'd like to see a similar design to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)), 2 power cars, but 9 or 10 coaches in length. Definitely not a voyager type creation. Capacity can only realistically be increased by longer trains.

Power cars, MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) engines, possibly a bit beefier than currently (futureproofed with the long term option of replacing or modifying for overhead power). Maybe some sort of guards accommodation in them if noise levels can be reduced and considered safer / regards inergen or whatnot, so that guards areas can be given over to seats in coaches.

Coach A - guards van (assuming power cars unsuitable), standard class quiet coach
Coach B - standard class coach with more tables
Coach C, D & E - standard class coach airline seating
Coach F - standard class coach (more tables), and disabled space.
Coach G - buffet / bar, standard seating area perhaps similar to on the old class 442 'bar' area
Coach H - First class / resturaunt coach
Coach I - First class
Coach J - First class quiet coach and another guards or staff area at the end

Power doors on all coaches except in guards vans ends, tip up seats in vestibules. Doors at ends of carriage rather than middle as in current design. SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) system fitted, and PAs^▸ (Public Address (broadcast loudspeaker announcements) or Passenger Assist (railway staff providing physical assistance to passengers with mobility issues), depending on context) at all door controls. CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele-Vision) throughout the train which can be monitored by guards from secure areas - e.g. guards vans or power cars. Possibly some sort of distributed traction to enable faster acceleration, as long as ride quality isn't compromised.

Standard class seating similar to on SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s 159's although with higher backs to meet safety standards. First class leather seating similar to existing service.

Luggage racks and spaces at ends of carriage broadly similar as to existing coach layouts. Working plug sockets, perhaps some sort of Wi Fi System. Toilets at each end of each carriage as in present coaches.

[swlines]

Current gossip is that it won't be diesel at all - and in fact a variant of the class 444 Desiro.

[simonw]

A one size fits all approach for HST2 will be a disaster.

Whatever happens, the train design must be flexible to support a number of options that may be needed on certain routes at certain times, and it should be easy to change the configuration quickly

- variable train lengths
- possible double deck carriages for busy routes
- security cameras in all carriages/vestibule areas
- restaurent car for long train runs
- Power facilities (socket/usb ?) for all seats
- WiFi

The list is endless really, but the most important feature is flexibility, and the ability to add/remove carriages, and possiblly turning 1 HST2 used for rush hour into 2 mini-HST2 for daytime/weekend use.

[Chris2]

There are some ideas that I hadn't thought of. I agree that a one size doesn't fit all, and there should definitely be flexibility in the replacement to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)).

I also think the train should continue to run at at least 125mph where possible but should support a higher speed if the infrastructure supports it. The train I feel should also be able to run on the majority of branch lines so then summer specials could be used but it also allows more flexibility due to unforeseen circumstances.

[Chris2]

Double deck trains work really well in Switzerland where they are common, and in some places in this region they would be really useful. But I think this would require a major change to the infrastructure. I also think that a HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) replacement like the ICE trains in Germany would be suitable.

[simonw]

Most of the country would require significant work to allow double deck trains, but I don't think this applies to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and SWL^▸ (South Wales Line) areas, thanks to IKB^▸ (Isambard Kingdom Brunel), and our still largely Victorian network.

[Lee]

See also link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1013.msg5006#msg5006

[Conner]

Current gossip is that it won't be diesel at all - and in fact a variant of the class 444 Desiro.

Meaning no one will travel by train any more.

[Conner]

Well my HST2 would be like this formation wise:

Power Car-MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) Engine, Bicycle and Luggage Store
Coach A-Quiet Class, Half Luggage Store and Train Managers Office with Inward Opening Slam Door, Quiet Zone, No Tables
Coach B-Standard Class, No Reservations, 5 Tables
Coach C-Standard Class, 2 Tables, 2 Disabled Tables and Spaces, Disabled Toilet
Coach D-Standard Class, 4 Tables
Coach E-Standard Class, 4 Tables
Coach F-Family and Friends Class, Half Coach Available for Reservation, Special Reservation System
Coach G-Restaurant Class, Buffet Area, Kitchen, First Class Seating, 8 Walk Up Tables for Dining
Coach H-First Class, All Tables
Coach I- Premier Class, Quiet Zone, No Tables Half has a First Class Service Area
Power Car-MTU Engine, Bicycle and Luggage Store

Standard Class is same price as Quiet Class and Family and Freinds Class.
Family and Freinds Class only available when booking more than 3 Seats at the Same Time.
First Class is the same price as Premier Class.
Power Doors, No tip up seats, CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele-Vision). Luggage Racks at End and Middle of Carriages.
Paper Reservation Tickets.
Soft Comfortable Seats with High Backs.
First Class: Soft, Cushiony, High Back, Big, Spacious seats.
Free Wi-Fi.
Toilets only at one end of Coach, giving one at every Vestibule and four doors.

[swlines]

Current gossip is that it won't be diesel at all - and in fact a variant of the class 444 Desiro.

Meaning no one will travel by train any more.

Eh?

There is a plan on the table currently to electrify the entire GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) using 25kV OHLE. Rumour has it WoE will go third rail.

[devon_metro]

Current gossip is that it won't be diesel at all - and in fact a variant of the class 444 Desiro.

Meaning no one will travel by train any more.

Eh?

There is a plan on the table currently to electrify the entire GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) using 25kV OHLE. Rumour has it WoE will go third rail.

Interesting, is Labour borrowing more money they dont have then 

[Chris2]

If the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) is to be electrified, it will definitely allow faster accelerating trains, and while network rail work out where the money is coming from, possibly extend the shorter platforms to allow easier alighting and disembarking as people seem to want a longer train so far.

[Conner]

Current gossip is that it won't be diesel at all - and in fact a variant of the class 444 Desiro.

Meaning no one will travel by train any more.

Eh?

There is a plan on the table currently to electrify the entire GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) using 25kV OHLE. Rumour has it WoE will go third rail.

Would you travel London-Penzance on a 444?

[swlines]

Would you travel London to Penzance on a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HD set in standard?

The main candidate to go 25kV at the moment is the Midland Mainline to Nottingham and Sheffield - but I suspect GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) will very quickly follow as it would reduce the rail industrys fuel usage by a huge amount.