Booking a whole carriage on a busy service

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Edinburgh Live

A raging Edinburgh train passenger has hit out after being "forced to stand" when a VIP allegedly booked 80 seats in a carriage during a long-haul journey.

The passenger took to Twitter to ask LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) why her, and several other passengers, were made to stand while a "bouncer" refused to let them sit in one of the dozens of empty seats that were not being used.

[ellendune]

It was my understanding that if you had not taken your booked seat after departure from your starting point it was no longer booked. Am I correct? If so what was LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) doing? Was the bouncer breaking the law?

[Electric train]

Should have just sat in the seats, the bouncer cannot touch you as that is assault.  If BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) were summoned at the next stop the Police Officer could well use their discretion and not intervene as it being unreasonable for the seats to remain empty and being left empty could lead to public disorder.

[ChrisB]

Try getting past a bouncer blocking the vestibule door. They couldn’t touch him eithdr, for the same reasons (assault)

Also the ‘VIP’may have paid for all those seats to remain empty. Did she have seats reserved in the same coach? Somehow, it sounds as though she didn’t. LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) should have made some arrangement to show the coach was reserved throughout if it was.

If it wasn’t, the train manager should have been approached to resolve

[ellendune]

What do the Conditions of Carriage say about empty reserved seats

[ChrisB]

You are able to book a whole coach out, rather than reserve all the seats.

[grahame]

You are able to book a whole coach out, rather than reserve all the seats.

And according to the article, that was done.  What your are able to do and SHOULD be able to do may be different matters, for discussion ... and what happens (as I understand here) when a previous train is cancelled and you're trying to fit more passengers that conmofortable into the remaining space on the train with the reserved coach is an interesting call

[ChrisB]

Probably not if you are the person that has paid all that money in order to reserve your whole coach. A contract is a contract.

[Noggin]

Perhaps we need compulsory sear reservations like on continental HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) services? That should focus minds on whether we need additional capacity too!

[grahame]

Perhaps we need compulsory sear reservations like on continental HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) services? That should focus minds on whether we need additional capacity too!

Hmm ... I'm not thrilled with that idea, bearing in mind that so many shorter distance journeys are made on long distance trains, and return legs of day return trips are often made on completion of business, so which train you catch is unpredictable.   But mostly-reserved with a small proportion of not-reservable may be OK?

The train in the reported issue was really busy because a previous train had been cancelled.   What would you do for booked passengers on a cancelled train on an all-reserved system?  I recall having that issue with BA^» (British Airways - about) many years ago, and being told that the next available flight with spaces was 10 days away.  I was travelling with 2 children (10 and 5 at the time) and the three of us did not like the BA offer and worked around it in an alternative way; thank you, BA, for helping me learn to stand up for myself and get effective resolve. 

 

[ChrisB]

Perhaps we need compulsory sear reservations like on continental HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) services? That should focus minds on whether we need additional capacity too!

Hmm ... I'm not thrilled with that idea, bearing in mind that so many shorter distance journeys are made on long distance trains, and return legs of day return trips are often made on completion of business, so which train you catch is unpredictable.   But mostly-reserved with a small proportion of not-reservable may be OK?

Already happening on Avanti WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))….try booking a ticket from BHM to PRE on November 3 !! I’ve had to book via MAN at a slightly increased/longer journey as ‘tickets sold out’ on all daytime trains

[Phantom]

Any indication who the person was?

If it was one of the Royal Family etc, it could make more sense

[ChrisB]

I’m not sure the security guy for them would be described as a bouncer’?

[stuving]

Any indication who the person was?

If it was one of the Royal Family etc, it could make more sense

They wouldn't be using LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about)'s standard "Private Hire" offer, would they?

What is Private Hire?

Our Private Hire option allows you exclusive access to one of our train coaches, either in First Class or Standard.

Ideal for:
    Large groups travelling for special occasions such as weddings or birthdays
    Work parties that want to host onboard conferences
    Or for tour groups that want the extra bit of space on board
    On some of our trains we also offer our smaller coaches which are ideal for those travelling with fewer people who still want the privacy of their own carriage.

What are the benefits of Private Hire?

There's lots of benefits to using our Private Hire service:
    Exclusive use of one of our carriages
    Dedicated booking team who will make sure your journey runs smoothly
    Help with any special assistance required
    Digital eTickets are available so you can have a contactless journey
    We accommodate any size of group
    Free Wi-Fi for your journey.

[Bmblbzzz]

https://www.lner.co.uk/tickets-savings/your-ticket/platinum-service/
I've no idea how long this has been available or whether other operators have something similar, but unless it's very new I'm surprised we haven't heard similar angry tweets before. But probably there have been, just this one happened to be noticed by Edinburgh Live.

I’m not sure the security guy for them would be described as a bouncer’?

It seems a fair enough description. He was "bouncing" people at the carriage door. It's not clear though whether he was hired directly by the group using Platinum Service or was LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about)'s "private host". I expect the former but maybe not.

Another consideration is whether this was an end carriage, so only occupying that one coach, or a middle one, so preventing progress along the gangway.