Bristol - Manchester services

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

(Post hauled out of this quiz by the scruff of the neck and put here)

On number 3, a quiz thread probably isn't the place to make this point. We should bear in mind that post-covid the first weekday through train Bristol to Manchester is at 14:00 - while several of the morning connections aren't good at all.

The first of the day involves an hour's wait at Birmingham, but still, a peak single fare of £105* standard or £231 first - or a choice of 2 changes at Birmingham and Crewe for a marginally earlier arrival time that's still after 10am (and the same fare). The next is routed via the Welsh borders. This represents a huge failure of the rail system to serve what should be a core flow. It's embarrassing.

Mark

*Edited as the National Rail site glitches and sometimes feeds the visitor the first class fare as standard.

Edit to add link back to original thread - grahame

[froome]

When I travel from Bath to Manchester these days, which I do occasionally, I usually travel via Newport, as the fares tend to be much less going that way, which is ridiculous when you think about it.

In fact, I have often combined a journey to Manchester with a journey into north Wales, and bought an all Wales rover ticket, which covers the Newport to Manchester journey and allows me flexibility to use other services as well while in Wales.

[grahame]

(Post hauled out of the quiz by the scruff of the neck and put here)

On number 3, a quiz thread probably isn't the place to make this point. We should bear in mind that post-covid the first weekday through train Bristol to Manchester is at 14:00 - while several of the morning connections aren't good at all.

The first of the day involves an hour's wait at Birmingham, but still, a peak single fare of £105* standard or £231 first - or a choice of 2 changes at Birmingham and Crewe for a marginally earlier arrival time that's still after 10am (and the same fare). The next is routed via the Welsh borders. This represents a huge failure of the rail system to serve what should be a core flow. It's embarrassing.

Mark

*Edited as the National Rail site glitches and sometimes feeds the visitor the first class fare as standard.

Thank for reposting that very serious issue here - so many times a major matter is raised initially in a light hearted manner.

Looking back a handful of years, I was a relatively frequent traveller from Melksham to Manchester and I tried (and usually succeeded) to use public transport for the journey - simply out of a desire to not have to drive all the way and then have a car to look after in an area where there was no need for one and it would be more of a burden than a blessing.   But - oh dear - the journey had its good bits and bad bits.

At times, travel via Newport was the financial choice (but what an awful change IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) there, and crowded trains on The Marches line).  Bristol (or Cheltenham Spa) to Manchester tended to work well.  On the way back, connections at Bristol to get me home were "icky" - I can remember several times running through the subway at Temple Meads off a late running train from Manchester to see the tail lights of the "via Westbury" service passing the end of the platform, and having to chose between a long wait for the late bus in Bath, taking a taxi, or calling in a lift.

Changing at New Street - sorry - I find distasteful.  Crowded platforms in the dungeon under the brave new centre.  Not knowing what platform the train's going to be on - changes including late ones, having to go through multiple barriers, etc; frankly glad I don't have to make that journey any longer.

Failure to provide affordable though services from the South West to the North West at times of day that people need to travel is - well - words are failing me for once.  If I didn't know otherwise, it could be very much part of a government policy to kill rail use on the corridor ...

[TonyK]

It's crazy. The schedule for the Manchester trains worked well for all sorts of reasons, not least of which is that a round trip fitted a driver's day. Like all CrossCountry services, the majority of passengers would not travel the full length of the journey, and it was a good Bristol - Birmingham service too.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!

[grahame]

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!

Perhaps it doesn't go to London where all the important people want to go, and it doesn't provide the main train service to many places so you won't get any great strong local opposition if you reduce it ...

[ChrisB]

Perhaps its a general reduction to save money? cf the Southern Reduction thread. Seems ro be across the board?

[froome]

At times, travel via Newport was the financial choice (but what an awful change IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) there, and crowded trains on The Marches line).  Bristol (or Cheltenham Spa) to Manchester tended to work well.  On the way back, connections at Bristol to get me home were "icky" - I can remember several times running through the subway at Temple Meads off a late running train from Manchester to see the tail lights of the "via Westbury" service passing the end of the platform, and having to chose between a long wait for the late bus in Bath, taking a taxi, or calling in a lift.

Changing at New Street - sorry - I find distasteful.  Crowded platforms in the dungeon under the brave new centre.  Not knowing what platform the train's going to be on - changes including late ones, having to go through multiple barriers, etc; frankly glad I don't have to make that journey any longer.

Quite agree. Connections at Newport have always been very tight. If the train is close to being on time, you will see lots of people pour onto the platform from the Portsmouth train and dash for the stairs or lift to catch the connecting service on the Marches line. But on the many occasions when it is a few minutes late, we have watched our connecting train moving off as our train has been arriving. And the Marches trains are certainly crowded out of Newport - they desperately need longer trains on the first leg as far as Abergavenny or Hereford at least.

Agree on New Street as well. Trying to avoid having to wait on the platforms there is one of the reasons why I usually travel via Newport.

[jamestheredengine]

What routes are technically permitted between Bristol and Manchester? Looking at the timetable, this ought to work as a way of avoiding changing at Birmingham New Street, taking less than 15 minutes longer:

1035 Bristol Temple Meads
1318 Sheffield

1343 Sheffield
1437 Manchester Piccadilly

[TonyK]

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!

Pessimist noun (c)

 - 1) An optimist with experience

[grahame]

What routes are technically permitted between Bristol and Manchester?

Interestingly - I think the answer is "If you want to go via Sheffield, book from Westbury".  Simples. Though I don't know what it does to the price.

I recall doing a week of work split between 3 days in Manchester and 2 days in Leicester, and found that tickets from Melksham would have been 3 singles, as a Melksham to Manchester return is not valid via Sheffield.   However, a ticket from Westbury is and as it was Manchester first that week, I could use the outbound in a day and then break the journey on my period return on the way back. Had it been two days in Leicester followed by 3 days in Manchester, I suspect that the fare would have been higher.