Bath Spa - Bristol fares (when purchased as part of a longer journey)

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

To anyone reading it accidentally, I should probably apologise for this thread.

Also inspired by the perception that, when bought as an add on, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have tended to make the Bristol to Bath length of the GWR main line one of the most expensive in the country. (OK, probably justified by the engineering works...)

One of their most popular pieces of track, it's no wonder that they try & get as much revenue as possible from it. Always remember that the sole purpose of selling Advances is to fill seats that otherwise wouldn't be filled - and with Bath - Bristol being popular, they don't have to sell that many. AS an example, it is often cheaper to buy two off-peak day returns from London to Bristol (splitting at Didcot) than an Advance from Paddington all the way. And you get off-peak flexibility too as a bonus.

With a railcard, I've just looked at a return Bath Spa to Knighton versus Bristol Temple Meads to Knighton.

National Rail lists the fares as 'off peak returns' but allows travel on the first train of the day.

Bath Spa - Knighton: £49:75
Bristol Temple Meads - Knighton £35:35

So, a difference of £14.40

Here's a comparison on similar tickets from the two starting points to Swansea.

National Rail lists these as 'Anytime returns' (for the entire day, the site quotes an off-peak fare for later trains, but from Bristol, that's £39:65, so, £13.20 more expensive than the 'Anytime' fare that allows more flexibility.)

Bath Spa - Swansea: £33:25
Bristol Temple Meads - Swansea: £26:45

So, for Swansea, Bath cf. Bristol as a starting point adds £6:80 to the fare.

Incidentally, with a railcard, 'Anytime Day Return' Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads is £6.60. (No period returns available...)

OK, a popular piece of track, but GWR needs to look at the way that long distance travel that involves use of the Bath to Bristol leg is priced.

Perhaps this also bites other starting points east from Bath too.

Perhaps it's not even GWR that's responsible - some of these journeys are priced by either Crosscountry or Transport for Wales. (In the case of Bath Spa to Knighton, it's difficult to see the connection with Crosscountry...)

Mark

[froome]

£49-75 is the senior railcard discount fare.

There is certainly a major fares anomaly on this sort of journey from Bath. For instance, if you look at the fare from Chippenham, via Bath, to Knighton, it is £13-15 cheaper than the fare from Bath Spa. If you don't have a discount, the fare difference is over £20.

I found out about this anomaly a while ago when looking at fares from Bath Spa to Hereford. I don't have all details now, but it was cheaper to travel from further afield (both Chippenham and stations to the south, e.g. Trowbridge) than from Bath Spa, and was also cheaper to travel to stations beyond Hereford, such as Leominster and Ludlow, than to Hereford. Fares from Bristol temple Meads were also much cheaper, as per Mark's message.

[Mark A]

Having started this thread with an apology - for most people, Knighton is not a rail destination that will play a great part in their lives - said apology is now withdrawn as this is engaging for more destinations than I thought.

Is it the case that quirks like 'The Shrewsbury maneuvre' are already known to many people? Also, is there something constructive that can be done with fares from Salisbury to London, by invoking the names of minor stations in Bristol?

Looking at fares to various destinations from Temple Meads, Bath Spa and Chippenham, there are some doozies to be found, including what might be the 'highest price per mile' rail fare in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). You can probe these yourself by setting up three browser tabs for National Rail, setting the fares site with the three stations as the origin, set the date of travel a week hence, and hammer in to each of the three a series of the same destinations - in order, firstly, to explore full return fares. At the same time this will give you sight of off peak variations and availability or otherwise of advance purchase fares.

Thinking of the original topic heading and sticking to Bath to Bristol, Liverpool is the tops at the moment: the difference between Bristol to Liverpool and Bath to Liverpool being £16.90.

Looking up the line from Bath and there are more surprises. The following one bites travellers from Bristol too.  Looking at Norwich - an anytime return is £301 from both Bristol and Bath - but £210.70 from Chippenham - catching the same train. So, within the envelope of the through fare, Bristol / Bath to Chippenham being charged at *£90.40* return.

Mark

[Trowres]

Mark, you have started an interesting adventure in fares set by Greater Anglia!

It seems that they have set fares rather crudely: a similar step in Anytime Returns appears between:-
Westbury/Pewsey to Norwich
Trowbridge/Melksham to Norwich

And all anytime return fares to Norwich:-
Dorchester West: 265.90 (any permitted route)
Chetnole: 301.10 (via London)
Yeovil Pen Mill: 301.10 (via London)
Yeovil Jn: 265.90 (any permitted)

Readers, you may be wondering on permitted routes from Yeovil Jn to Norwich.  I had a quick play with the National Rail Journey Planner, and it IS valid via Yeovil Pen Mill (by train between the two Yeovil stations or "walk"). More impressively, it is also valid via... Bath.... and ... Taunton. 

[grahame]

There are some fascinating anomalies even on normal journeys ... lowest cost return fares to London (off peak or super off peak, cheapest route, though not looking at advance tickets)

Severn Tunnel Junction £62.70
Severn Beach £41.00
Pilning £49.00
Avonmouth £41.00
Montpelier £41.00
Bristol Parkway £41.00
Stapleton Road £49.00
Bath Spa £49.00
Trowbridge £46.00
Melksham £61.30
Chippenham £56.90
Dilton Marsh £46.00
Swindon £54.00
Salisbury £42.00
Didcot £30.00

[Mark A]

Thanks for that list. I had to read it a couple of times before the subtle (and not so subtle) skewedness sunk in. Seems like, among other settlements, we need to re-evaluate the geographical position of Swindon.

Mark

[ellendune]

There are some fascinating anomalies even on normal journeys ... lowest cost return fares to London (off peak or super off peak, cheapest route, though not looking at advance tickets)

Bristol Parkway £41.00
Swindon £54.00

So since a Bristol Parkway to London ticket is valid via Swindon and can be used short, there should be no sales of Swindon to London tickets, since they are required to sell you the cheapest ticket valid for your journey.  Or am I missing something?

[ChrisB]

Your missing something - they only have to sell you the cheapest ticket from your departure station

[BandHcommuter]

There are some fascinating anomalies even on normal journeys ... lowest cost return fares to London (off peak or super off peak, cheapest route, though not looking at advance tickets)

Bristol Parkway £41.00
Swindon £54.00

So since a Bristol Parkway to London ticket is valid via Swindon and can be used short, there should be no sales of Swindon to London tickets, since they are required to sell you the cheapest ticket valid for your journey.  Or am I missing something?

The £41 fare quoted from Bristol Parkway is an off-peak day return routed via Warminster and Salisbury. The £54 fare quoted from Swindon is a super off-peak return, via any permitted route. The comparable fare (same ticket type and route) from Bristol Parkway is £67.20.

[Mark A]

Ah, thanks.

The ones I was turning out were same route and in some cases the same train.

Mark

[ellendune]

Your missing something - they only have to sell you the cheapest ticket from your departure station

I did wonder if that was the case