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Poll
Question: Poll: So, according to another thread, we all hate the refurbed HSTs (High Speed Train)! What do you hate most:
I hate nothing. The refurb was great!
Lack of table seats.
High seat backs.
Lack of luggage space.
Restricted views.
"Slippery" First Class seats.
Lighting too bright/lack of individual lights.
Cannot see out windows, only my reflection.
Uncomfortable Second Class seats.
Absolutely everything. The refurb was a total disaster!

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Author Topic: Poll: What do you hate about the HSTs?!  (Read 15980 times)
polonia
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« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2008, 14:39:09 »

Personally I prefer the pre refurb coaches - I find the new ones less comfortable and rather claustrophobic. I appreciate that high seat backs are now a safety standard but the rank upon rank of airline seats makes it a) impossible to see whether a seat is occupied when you board the train and b) severely restricts views out of the window (part of the pleasure of train travel). A few more tables would break up the monotony, open up the views and considerably improve things - one only has to look at the GNER (Great North Eastern Railways)/ NXEC (National Express East Coast) refurbished mark IIIs which also incoporate high sea backs (though they seem at first glance to have got away with rather shorter ones than FGW (First Great Western)) to see what can be achieved with a bit of thought and proper design. Its a sad state of affairs when Southern region commuter stock operated by South Eastern, C2C, Southern and SWT (South West Trains) is now a pleasanter travel experience than inter-city trains on what was once one of Britain's premier main lines. Still, things could be worse, they could be as uncomfortable as standard class in a Virgin pendelino where the seating appears to be a complete afterthought as anyone whos sat next to a blank wall for hours will know !   
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swlines
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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2008, 14:53:54 »

Never travelled standard on Pendolinos but I can tell you that first class is rather nice! Wink
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John R
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2008, 15:14:18 »

Personally I prefer the pre refurb coaches - I find the new ones less comfortable and rather claustrophobic. I appreciate that high seat backs are now a safety standard but the rank upon rank of airline seats makes it a) impossible to see whether a seat is occupied when you board the train and b) severely restricts views out of the window (part of the pleasure of train travel). A few more tables would break up the monotony, open up the views and considerably improve things - one only has to look at the GNER (Great North Eastern Railways)/ NXEC (National Express East Coast) refurbished mark IIIs which also incoporate high sea backs (though they seem at first glance to have got away with rather shorter ones than FGW (First Great Western)) to see what can be achieved with a bit of thought and proper design. Its a sad state of affairs when Southern region commuter stock operated by South Eastern, C2C, Southern and SWT (South West Trains) is now a pleasanter travel experience than inter-city trains on what was once one of Britain's premier main lines. Still, things could be worse, they could be as uncomfortable as standard class in a Virgin pendelino where the seating appears to be a complete afterthought as anyone whos sat next to a blank wall for hours will know !   

Interesting comment that. A couple of our head office staff travelled down to Bristol this week, and without being asked commented how the train was so cramped, and indeed much more so than the trains on their line (Great Northern as was, so Cl 365 or 317).

I also travelled recently from London to Edinburgh, out on an unrefurbished HST (High Speed Train) and back on a Mallard style refurbed set. I much preferred the latter, so it is possible to refurb a train to modern safety standards, and not have the high density and claustrophic ambience that is now a fact of life on FGW. 
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woody
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« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2008, 19:45:00 »

FGW (First Great Western) are are between a rock and a hard place on this one.On other long distance routes(ECML (East Coast Main Line)/WCML (West Coast Main Line) etc which are electrified),commuter services at the London end particularly have their own high performance rolling stock with internal layouts optimised for the commuters, leaving the inter-city trains to cater for the longer haul with internal layouts to match.(Bristol/Padd is now a commuter not inter city route)
On FGW they have had to adopt a one size fits all with the HST (High Speed Train) refurb, with its inevitable compromises for longer distance passengers where rail is now competing with vastly improved road and air links.ie Ryanair fly Stanstead/Newquay twice daily,British Airways fly Gatwick/Newquay once daily and local airline Air south West fly Gatwick/Plymouth/Newquay 4 times a day.You can also drive motorway/dual carraigeway to almost Truro(Door to Door) now while much the rail route west of Exeter still remains slow and sinuous.
While rail commuters often have little choice but to put up with things, longer distance passengers these days do not necessarily have to accept compromises.
 At the end of the day FGW have done what any company would do,that is play to its strengths which now lie in the short/Medium distance market which the FGW HST refurb is unashamably aimed at.
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willc
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« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2008, 22:23:00 »

If it is the case that high-backed seats are now compulsory, how is it that according to the June issue of Modern Railways magazine, East Midlands Trains is retaining the existing low-backed seat shells when it refurbishes its HSTs (High Speed Train)?

I don't have anything against high-backed seats per se, it's just that FGW (First Great Western)'s seem to me to be about an inch too high, hence the claustrophobic feel - and the inability to see if seats further along a coach are occupied until you're almost on top of them.
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John R
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« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2008, 22:43:27 »

If you retain the seat shells you're OK, as all you're doing is reupholstering them. If you replace then they have to meet the new standards.   
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willc
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« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2008, 23:06:35 »

Don't you mean double standards?
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Karl
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« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2008, 02:16:31 »

Morning

I have also had the pleasure of travelling on a
few occasions, a refurbed HST (High Speed Train) coach and agree
with the comments posted.

My biggest gripe is the lack of custioning in the
seat bottoms, especially on the bottom (pun
intended).  There are really uncomfatable after an
hours travelling, to the point that my journey is
not pleasurable anymore.  I'm not overally fused
about the height (although I understand the previous
commemts sent), but there doesn't seem to to be any
padding, or is the padding made of hardboard?  I
suppose it has to be a certain material, with a
certain amount of wadding to meet H&S (Health and Safety) criteria?
I noticed the seats on Voyagers are pretty simular
in thickness, so assume the above?

Also (and I think this has been posted before), the
seat backs seem to be far more forward in proping
you up, now if there was an accident and the coach
was thrown around a bit, surely there is more
likelyhood of you been thrown out of your seat than
on a unrefurb seat?!  So how is that design of seat
meeting current H&S regulations?  Surely the idea
is so that people are not thrown forward onto quite
a hard plastic back especailly for kids/frail and
elderly passengers?

Regards


Karl.
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Karl
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« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2008, 13:03:06 »

Morning John R and All

Agree with John regarding the Mallard refurbs the
late GNER (Great North Eastern Railways) did.  There HST (High Speed Train) were in my opinion the
best, with First Class even having table top lamps!
Its a shame that "Sea Containers/GNER" didn't get
the renewed contract for the ECML (East Coast Main Line).  However I did
also travel on a c91 from Berwick - Newcastle an
found the seat slightly too far foward, uncomfatable
and that wasn't a good match to the window as well.

Also agree with "Southern" and "South Central"? with
their newish c375 electrics, (are Southern ones 377?).
Found those to be quite comfy, especially if you have
a bank of seats or table to yourself!

Regards

Karl.
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Westernchallenger
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« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2008, 13:58:12 »

I like....

airline seats for when I'm travelling alone
the moveable armrests
the internal colour scheme
the seat back tables and laptop rest
the amount of legroom in the airline seats
the power points
the more effective air conditioning - i.e. the coaches are cooler and less stuffy than before
the toilets
the buffet
improved pa clarity
the lack of Adelante-style automated announcements

I don't like....

the yellow windows
the over bright lights (even at half power they are too bright)
the very poor positioning of the table seats relative to the windows - this could have been got right
the hardness of the seats
1st class leather seats - they are of such poor taste and will look dated very quickly


 
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