Identitrax quiz

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

Do you have a date for the picture Grahame?

I’ve found a schematic of the present layout, Borough Market Jn is just a shadow of its former complexity, basically up services are now divided into 3 groups well before London Bridge, so there’s a dedicated track pair for each of Cannon St, Thameslink, and Charing Cross.

Paul

[stuving]

This map shows the 1952 layout, and looks to be exactly as in the photo. From that you can see that all platforms can serve the four-track main line to London Bridge, and all except P1 (I think) on the east, or left, side serve the line round to Charing Cross.

So the tracks leading out upwards (and over the Thames) were four electrics, then one loco siding, then three non-electric merging to two, and then some more parking space. I don't see that pair on the right as in any way dedicated to the Charing cross route, for obvious reasons.  Pathing trains through there must have been a nightmare - all those reversals, but not in p1, and P6-9 being unelectrified! My local signallers know how embarrassing it is if you get that wrong.

Presumably those steam-hauled trains were to the coast, not electrified until ca. 1960. There's loads about that in this article from the Southern Electric Group. And did you spot this, still just in time to be on this day?

on 28th February 1926 full electric services were introduced from Charing Cross and Cannon Street to the Mid Kent line, Bromley North and Orpington.

[Worcester_Passenger]

So where was the photo taken from?

[grahame]

So where was the photo taken from?

I understand that there was a signal box across the tracks and it was from there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_Street_station#/media/File:Ian_Strang_-_Cannon_Street_Station_-_1923_-_Strang-Cannon.jpg

[stuving]

So where was the photo taken from?

I understand that there was a signal box across the tracks and it was from there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_Street_station#/media/File:Ian_Strang_-_Cannon_Street_Station_-_1923_-_Strang-Cannon.jpg

I can see a couple of problems with that explanation - the signal box in the picture was further out than the end of the longest platform, and it was demolished in 1926 at the same time as the new trackwork and electrification being put in. The location of the signal box can be seen down in the bottom right corner of this map (revised 1915, but not published until 1936!). I presume the photo must have been taken from up on the the front wall of the station; while I can't see it was ever easily accessible, there must have been occasions like painting and repair work when it could have been done.

All that work took place during a three-week closure: 3 p.m. on Saturday June 5th to 4 a.m. on Monday 28th June 1926. There's even pictures (The Sphere 12 June 1926) of the work being done by a (not very) small army of men in typical 1920s workwear, with the signal box half removed. I don't think we could match that today - and it's not as if all that S&C^▸ (Settle and Carlisle ), with its rodding from a new signal box, plus coping with the newfangled colour lamp signalling, was really a lot simpler.

It was explained at the time that a complete closure allowed the work to be done much more quickly (day and night). This of course was just after the General Strike (4-12 May) and while the miners stayed on strike disrupting coal supplies, so the new timetable could not be introduced in full from day one. In addition, between the peaks the station was closed for several days for some finishing off and adjustments to be done.

[paul7575]

I suppose as a general point, such complex layouts as we see here at Cannon St would probably not have used bi-directional lines to the extent they’re used nowadays.  Everything seemed to be designed to cross over right at the platform ends, up and down lines seemed sacrosanct further away, so was that a limitation of semaphore signalling?  Or was it just custom and practice to sort everything out in a short distance?

Paul

[grahame]

I suppose as a general point, such complex layouts as we see here at Cannon St would probably not have used bi-directional lines to the extent they’re used nowadays.  Everything seemed to be designed to cross over right at the platform ends, up and down lines seemed sacrosanct further away, so was that a limitation of semaphore signalling?  Or was it just custom and practice to sort everything out in a short distance?

Paul

Thanks Paul and stuving for your thoughts ... agreed, probably from the main arched roof when folks were up there doing painting of other maintenance works.

Until the days of electric points, pointwork was clumped around signal boxes to allow for practical rodding, and with trains passing from one box to another under bell control, single direction working on each track was the norm - these things together effecting layout design.  These days, stuff can be spread out without needed signal (or rather point control) boxes all over the place.

[paul7575]

I just dug out a book I have about Newcastle Central Station and the High Level Bridge, (HLB). The famous “east end diamonds”, which are often seen in photos as in picture 4, historically claimed a record for complexity, and are a great example where the early railway builders went for the maximum possible flexibility.   In the original 1893 layout, and somewhat before the west end King Edward Bridge was added, trains from the Gateshead side could reach the 3 through platforms, and all the east end bay platforms, 7 passenger platforms and a carriage dock. 

But the rationalisation started quickly, the diamonds only lasted in full form about 10 years, and by 1904 the easternmost lines leading from the HLB to platforms 1,2 and the dock were removed, this reduced the number of flat crossings significantly.  It had been decided that with north Tyneside electrification the first two platforms would be dedicated to the route towards Manors station.  This is the layout in the quiz picture.  The scale of the diamonds was reduced again in 1969, long before the Metro was proposed, and as before they now removed the next easternmost route from the HLB into platform 3.

The maintenance requirements were huge.  Complete replacement took place on about 8 separate occasions, say every ten years, but with constant problems of broken rails, and significant issues with track circuits.

I hope forum members find this YouTube photo montage interesting,  but please note from the dates it doesn’t actually go back as far as the 1893 full monty layout:

https://youtu.be/zdLW3h9yY-s