Scrap off peak FARES? Scrap off peak TRAINS? Or not quite either of the above!

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A confused story from City AM

Rail firms call for off-peak fares to be scrapped as industry tracks recovery

but then the story starts

Rail firms look to scrap off-peak trains as operators attempt to revive the railway after Covid.

No smoke without fire, and further down the article

There was a 78 per cent drop in train journeys in 2020, and the industry has been struggling to get travellers back on platforms.

Proposals to change the fare structure first emerged in 2019, and the new proposals look at preventing overcrowding on popular routes.

The RDG^‡(resolve) is seeking to revive proposals it made in 2019 to overhaul fare structures by ripping up regulations established in the 1990s when the railways were privatised. If enacted, its plans could end the quirk of single tickets on some routes costing almost the same as return fares.

Documents reveal that that the revenue shortfall in fares caused by the pandemic will “cumulatively be around £20 billion” by 2025.

[Robin Summerhill]

If enacted, its plans could end the quirk of single tickets on some routes costing almost the same as return fares.

Breaking news?

That was the case 60 years ago with cheap day return tickets, and was pobably going on before that before my memories of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) fares started

I don't think the public should hold their breath waiting for this change...

[stuving]

There's a very silly piece in today's Sunday Times business section headed, on the front page trailer, with "railways may crash to "20 billion shortfall". It turns out RDG^‡(resolve) had a study done by Imperial College London Consultants with modelling of future revenues, predicting that from 2019 to 2025 they'll be £20bn less than whatever their "if only" case would have been. Only £17bn of that has already happened ... so hardly news. I can't see any accessible source of this report or RDG's lobbying into the GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) process yet.

The main article dresses up as shock horror news some blindingly obvious conclusions based on a drop of commuter travel, and it spreading out of the peaks, but a rise in "leisure" rail travel. That would result in a drop in revenue with current pricing practices, of course. So if the cause of the high peak weighting in fares has gone away, wouldn't you naturally review it and reduce the weighting? And wanting to simplify fares and make them more comprehensible is hardly a new idea either.

The bit quoted above seems to have been lifted from the ST piece. Not for the first time, either - whatever happened to - if not journalistic ethics, at least their honour between thieves?

[CyclingSid]

This fits with what I was thinking on journeys last week. Public transport in general is whinging about lost revenue and passengers, but in some respects seem determined to discourage the use of public transport.

Example 1 - Bus Oxford to Reading. I get on the bus and am told that the folded bike should be in a bag. Now I don't like questioning the driver, because its really management who should be answering. But no reason known. I have previously experienced this with the "best" answer being a Stagecoach bus in Bognor, where the reply was because it will get the seats dirty (??). My response was do you require all the youngsters (ageist?) to put their trainers in bags?

Example 2 - Train Paddington to Reading. Announcement that bikes can only be taken on the train if they are booked. No personal problem as the bike folds, but getting on the train you would have stood no chance of getting a bike on because the bike spaces were full of luggage.

I hope GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) will not continue this. Anybody with a bike knows that there are limited (so-called) bike spaces.

Glad to see that sense has been restored with the Caledonian Sleeper rescinding its ban on e-bikes.

We should be encouraging passengers to use public transport.

[Timmer]

There's a very silly piece in today's Sunday Times business section headed, on the front page trailer, with "railways may crash to "20 billion shortfall". It turns out RDG^‡(resolve) had a study done by Imperial College London Consultants with modelling of future revenues, predicting that from 2019 to 2025 they'll be £20bn less than whatever their "if only" case would have been. Only £12bn of that has already happened ... so hardly news. I can't see any accessible source of this report or RDG's lobbying into the GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) process yet.

I stopped reading when I saw the words ‘study done by Imperial College London’.

[ChrisB]

My reading of both these pieces - very badly written - is that RDG^‡(resolve) proposes to deal with singles costing 10p less than a return and the smoothing of the shoulder peaks which is likely to increase the ‘off-peak’ fare to closer to the peak while possibly creating a bigger shoulder between off-peak & super off-peak fares.

The former to lower the  farebox take while the latter will compensate the fare box by raising the cost of shoulder fares.

[jamestheredengine]

A more sensible idea would surely be to redefine "peak" to match usage. It should no longer be peak to ride InterCity trains early mornings on weekdays. It should be peak to ride them on Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday afternoons.

[ChrisB]

There would be be complete ‘rip off’ complaints - on here too! Unworkable.

And no suggesting varying AM peak times according to route either…we need *simplification* of fares!

[Electric train]

GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) will simplify fares, over the next year or two as the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) move the ToC's to new contracts away from the old franchise model the fares policy will be changed

[jamestheredengine]

There would be be complete ‘rip off’ complaints - on here too! Unworkable.

And no suggesting varying AM peak times according to route either…we need *simplification* of fares!

Then just make "peak" follow a sensible InterCity definition everywhere, with peaks on Friday and Sunday afternoons (except Regional Railways, where there is no sense in having peaks to Melksham or Llandrindod at all). Commuter trains lose shedloads of money anyway; no point in bothering pricing things for them -- the more lines that can be dropped on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) the better, so long as they don't disrupt the main lines.

[TaplowGreen]

A more sensible idea would surely be to redefine "peak" to match usage. It should no longer be peak to ride InterCity trains early mornings on weekdays. It should be peak to ride them on Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday afternoons.

That's a great way to attract leisure travellers, especially having lost so much income from those who'd previously have commuted every day.

[jamestheredengine]

A more sensible idea would surely be to redefine "peak" to match usage. It should no longer be peak to ride InterCity trains early mornings on weekdays. It should be peak to ride them on Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday afternoons.

That's a great way to attract leisure travellers, especially having lost so much income from those who'd previously have commuted every day.

I think it's reasonable to distinguish between leisure travellers, who may well want to go to a city two hours away for lunch (which the Two Together Railcard's 10am condition makes extremely hard on weekdays) and lifestyle travellers who rake in exorbitant London salaries and overburden the railway network on two afternoons per week.

[ChrisB]

Let’s *really* add complication to fares by having two ‘classes’ of leisure travellers!

Any more ideas to simplify fares?!

[JayMac]

Why not just scrap all public transport fares?

[TaplowGreen]

Why not just scrap all public transport fares?

Ooooooooooooooo's gonna pay for it? 

(First one for a while!)