FGW HSTs: worst refurbishment ever?

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

Only 1 an hour, a small town called Weymouth gets 2 per hour to London.

A city like Plymouth would benefit from an additional and likely to be fast service to London. There are likely to be business travellers aswell. First Class empties after leaving Plymouth and those left are likely to be a cheapo fares, like most of the rest of the train! West of Plymouth is only really good as a leisure market due to the poor transport of the area. Plymouth is just at the edge of the acceptable area (hence why its got a fairly unstable economy)

[Btline]

There is no need for high density sets on the Cotswold line (except Ox-London at peak)!

But here is a solution to all problems:

*Bring back 8 180s to displace 8 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).

*Break up the HSTs and add a 9th coach to each train.

*Add back tables

*Put 180s on Cotswold Line

More seats, more tables, and a faster service for the Cotswold Line!

[Andy W]

Seats are thinner and less reclined, increasing space.

Yes seats are thinner & more upright ( = more uncomfortable for many)

The basic rule = length of compartment / number of rows = passenger space ( = cushion length + seat width + legroom).

On the unrefurb coaches you lost legroom when seats were back to back, however this space was very useful for either luggage storage or for waste bins. Additionally sitting face to face at a table you can interlock legs with the person opposite rather than sit toe to toe which gives extra overlapping legroom. There is precious little storage room now so more cases on seats.

At the end of the day, I don't know exactly the measurements but more people = less space per person seems a logical deduction.

[John R]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

I only need bread and water to live, but I'd quite like a bit more. Same with the passenger environment on the train. You're right in one sense, but as a later contributor says, the social interaction is important, indeed necessary, to keep young children occupied. (I'm assuming that unless you are a very young contributor, your parents and siblings probably don't have the same challenges that young children do in terms of occupying them on a long journey, so I don' t see the relevance re my comment about a family with young children.)

The fact is that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have gone further than any other Inter-City operator in terms of removing tables, and in doing so have made a significantly negative impact on the travelling experience of many of its customers.   

[Conner]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

I only need bread and water to live, but I'd quite like a bit more. Same with the passenger environment on the train. You're right in one sense, but as a later contributor says, the social interaction is important, indeed necessary, to keep young children occupied. (I'm assuming that unless you are a very young contributor, your parents and siblings probably don't have the same challenges that young children do in terms of occupying them on a long journey, so I don' t see the relevance re my comment about a family with young children.)
   

I would say my younger sister and younger brother are very hard to entertain.
See this thread for one of your comments: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=925.0

[vacman]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

It's attitudes like this that have made FGW^▸ (First Great Western) such a contaminated brand.

Surely, FGW should look to provide the best possible customer experience.

And part of that experience for families and friends travelling long distances is the social interaction that tables clearly provide, and airline (or should I say 'bus') configurations fail to deliver.

Surely the best possible customer experience is to have more passengers seated? As for Penzance expresses, i'm all for it, they should call Penzance, Truro, St Austell, Liskeard, Plymouth, Exeter St Davids, Reading and Padd every hour, with an hourly Penzance-Plymouth calling Penzance, St Erth, Hayle, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, Saltash and Plymouth, and an hourly shuttle from Liskeard to Plymouth calling all stations.

[Mookiemoo]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

It's attitudes like this that have made FGW^▸ (First Great Western) such a contaminated brand.

Surely, FGW should look to provide the best possible customer experience.

And part of that experience for families and friends travelling long distances is the social interaction that tables clearly provide, and airline (or should I say 'bus') configurations fail to deliver.

Surely the best possible customer experience is to have more passengers seated? As for Penzance expresses, i'm all for it, they should call Penzance, Truro, St Austell, Liskeard, Plymouth, Exeter St Davids, Reading and Padd every hour, with an hourly Penzance-Plymouth calling Penzance, St Erth, Hayle, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, Saltash and Plymouth, and an hourly shuttle from Liskeard to Plymouth calling all stations.

Depends on the passenger and where they get on.

The passenger that got on at say, WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) or EVE/MIM on a hereford train used to be guaranteed a table - now they may get an airline seat.  Getting a seat was never an issue - its the quality of the seat.  Note: the person doing 50 minutes oxford to Pad or 30 minutes RDG^‡(resolve) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) is not as concerned over seat quality as those doing longer journeys.  All they want is to sit.

It is no consolation to them that people getting on at didcot or reading can now sit ...... they do not care - note if the people standing pay for first chances are half of them will be able to sit - tough if they choose not to.

Sitting at an airline seat for longer than an hour is no fund - mainly because people who regularly do that rely on the travelling time to be productive - airline seats allow reading, contemplating your navel, or talking to the person next to you - precious little else.

FG have forgotten that a not insignificant % of their travellers are not local ciommuters but longer distance commuters.

I know of several people who get a standard season but now upgrade on return because they cant get a decent seat out of PAD anymore.  At the moment FGW make some money from the upgrades - but if it gets much more expensive - they will transfer to chiltern or Virgin since on chiltern there is no difference and on virgin, standard has more tables!

[Mookiemoo]

Maybe the answer is to run MORE local services.

More PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) or RDG^‡(resolve)-OXF and run PAD-Exeter then have Exeter/penzance with some peak through expresses

NOTE:

Whilst I am againt the WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains)-OXF/OXF-PAD shuttle idea on the cotswolds line - that is because the journey is 2 hours (on a sensible timetable)

PAD-Penzance is 4+ hours - breaking the journey is not inconceivable

180s should come back - for the PAD-OXF/PAD-WOS(off peak) routes (an possibly for the other end of the penzance line (I'm just summising here - never been there ever by train or road))

HST^▸ (High Speed Train) should be HEAVY commuter routes - PAD/OXF peak/ Bristol-PAD
and full length

PAD - HRF
PAD-Penzanze
PAD-SWansea

And they should be fully tabled - they should not stop at reading (which is where most of the over crowding comes in)

The cornwall issue should be solved by local trains running from Exeter

I dont work on the railways so maybe there is stuff I dont know but as a seasoned commuter there is nothign worse than sitting at a sation waiting for departure or stopping at a station that only ever has 1/2 passengers getting on or off

[Mookiemoo]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

I only need bread and water to live, but I'd quite like a bit more. Same with the passenger environment on the train. You're right in one sense, but as a later contributor says, the social interaction is important, indeed necessary, to keep young children occupied. (I'm assuming that unless you are a very young contributor, your parents and siblings probably don't have the same challenges that young children do in terms of occupying them on a long journey, so I don' t see the relevance re my comment about a family with young children.)
   

I would say my younger sister and younger brother are very hard to entertain.
See this thread for one of your comments: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=925.0

And to this I would ask - what does a 14 year old know about real life

Do you have to do a working day and travel several hours to do it - the alternative being move your family and make them redundent

Dont comment on what you cannot understand

[grahame]

Hey - this is starting to get a bit personal - please calm it.  By definition, our younger members won't have the same number of years under their belt as I do, but they have the energy and enthusiasm that have been replaced by a slowing down, a tiredness and a cynicism.   These are dangerous generalities - not to be generally applied as the gaining of experience is not uniform or linear, and there are a few of us who perhaps don't get quite the same amount of negatives as we get older.    Ageism is rightly banned at the workplace; on here, personal attacks based on someone's age are also banned.

Back(ish) on subject? I know people who have had to give up their jobs because the December 2006 timetable changes (cuts) made it impossible / impractical for them to continue to commute as they did, and indeed I changed my own business in a major way due to those cuts.  That's not "just" a table being removed - it's a complete train and, frankly, it's on a different scale.  You'll see that I've not been active in this thread concerning the refurbs - as far as I'm concerned, the absence of presence of a train at a time when it's useable, reasonably on time and not cancelled too often, is more critical than whether I get a table (which I do really like!)

There were no tables at all in the trains I used to use to commute to school, and indeed in those days there were six seats a side in what we knew as a "single", and we survived perfectly well. On some journeys, I changed onto an express for part of the way and they had First Class which we never used - and in there there was / is certainly an argument for providing a higher standard of service for passenger's convenience at the (usually) higher price.  But this isn't a discussion that has a right or wrong answer - I applaud train companies who provide stock / trains beyond the minimum needed startdard in order to encourage more customers.

[Conner]

John R, me, my Mum, my Dad, my Brother and my Sister don't need a table on a journey to London, no one does, people would like one but they don't need one.

I only need bread and water to live, but I'd quite like a bit more. Same with the passenger environment on the train. You're right in one sense, but as a later contributor says, the social interaction is important, indeed necessary, to keep young children occupied. (I'm assuming that unless you are a very young contributor, your parents and siblings probably don't have the same challenges that young children do in terms of occupying them on a long journey, so I don' t see the relevance re my comment about a family with young children.)
   

I would say my younger sister and younger brother are very hard to entertain.
See this thread for one of your comments: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=925.0

And to this I would ask - what does a 14 year old know about real life

Do you have to do a working day and travel several hours to do it - the alternative being move your family and make them redundent

Dont comment on what you cannot understand

Well, I don't think I have commented on what I can't understand.

I am saying that my siblings get very easily bored and become hard to entertain even on the shortest of journeys. I know this through experience.

Yes, I do have to go to school and I have to travel for 30 minutes to get there by a First Bus. OK, it is not 9-5 working day but it is 5 days a week when I am working.

And I actually think I have commented on something which you disagree with. Airline seats are not useless for more than half an hour, I can sit with my family with them all the way to London quite comfortable and we don't really mind. A table would be nice but Airline seats are just fine.

I think I know quite alot about 'real life' actually, it is not all easy at school we do 5 hourly lessons a day, and then spend many hours doing coursework at home, so we can do what we want in 'real life'.

May I ask what is 'real life'? And how do you know about me and my personal life? As you don't know about my personal life I would please ask you refrain from commenting on it.

[swlines]

<entirely jokey comment>

Real life is where you commute three hours each way first class each day on a train after driving from your home in a pick up truck. You are a fan of some products, and enjoy arguing on forums.

</entirely jokey comment>

*runs*

To be honest, I'm pleased that in September although I will be starting to commute on the trains - I won't have to suffer FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) in standard. Can't stand 'em. Although I don't particularly like 444s either....

Only 1 an hour, a small town called Weymouth gets 2 per hour to London.

Weymouth isn't that small!!!

That additional train from the new timetable serves the vast area of Portland and Dorchester as well!

[Conner]

444's are awful. HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are much more comfortable and they lack Celia. 

[Jim]

Ageism is rightly banned at the workplace; on here, personal attacks based on someone's age are also banned.

So, as your generalisation is key - Why not ban the member?

[Jim]

Dont comment on what you cannot understand

Yes, please don't! Your not Conner's mum are you? If you are, then you understand, if not, then stop trying to act like her by telling our youngest member what he can and can't understand!