FGW HSTs: worst refurbishment ever?

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

But woody, commuters bring more money into FGW^▸ (First Great Western) that your average family all on Value Advance E tickets, so what do you expect them to do? FGW is a business and the train are here to stay. Get over it!

[Conner]

Whatever happens, I want to keep FGW^▸ (First Great Western) down here.
Stopping at Exeter would be disatorous for any people who use the train. Their would be less trains and longer journey times.
SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Class 159's are better than FGW HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s but I would quite  happily travel on a HST to London and it has certainly not put me off travelling on them, that would be the end of 158's down here. 

[vacman]

Hang on woody.... one minute you say that journey times are too long, and then you say that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services should terminate at Exeter making th journey even longer??? make your mind up! Anyway, you keep banging on about less people travelling from Cornwall to London because 5 minutes has been added to Pnz-Padd services but you cant produce anything to back it up??? I KNOW that more people are travelling long distance year on year, at the end of the day we now have TEN, yes TEN direct Pnz-Padd services mon fri in winter , ELEVEN in summer plus the weekday Newquay-Padd service (12 services from Cornwall) of which only 3 of them are "stoppers", when before we became "Greater" western in 2006 we only had 8 weekday services all year round, just because you don't like the refurb it doesn't mean that the whole world is going to boycott FGW! withe ever increasing fuel cost's it is far cheaper to go by train even on a saver let alone on leisure tickets!

[woody]

I would like to make it clear that I am not anti GWT indeed I want them to succeed because lets face it they are the only show in town in these parts,indeed its in the regions interest that they do.However there still much room for improvement despite things getting much better recently under new managment as the transport world around us is not standing still.
 As for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) refurb disregarding the very high seat backs( spoiling the view),lack of tables and bright lights the the refurb would actually be near perfect and the mechanical and electrical improvements to the HST power cars is top notch.
 As for ridership figures perhaps someone could direct me to a source of reliable up to date figures rather than making unsubstanciated claims.Certainly up to 2007 Network rail said in its Great Western "Route Utilisation strategy" that growth in rail travel from Plymouth and Cornwall was "minimal" compared to that from Exeter and Taunton to London and the Midlands.
 

[devon_metro]

I wouldn't really call them "unsubstanciated claims"

Anyhow, when I travel in the direction of London and the train has come from Penzance its often very busy and often full and standing past Exeter/Taunton. Thus proving that a fleet of lower density trains wouldn't actually be very beneficial to the SW. If a train is full, standing for 5 hours plus is a nightmare, so the more seats the better. Its only a handful of trains that are 'empty' as you so often claim!

[vacman]

I would like to make it clear that I am not anti GWT indeed I want them to succeed because lets face it they are the only show in town in these parts,indeed its in the regions interest that they do.However there still much room for improvement despite things getting much better recently under new managment as the transport world around us is not standing still.
 As for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) refurb disregarding the very high seat backs( spoiling the view),lack of tables and bright lights the the refurb would actually be near perfect and the mechanical and electrical improvements to the HST power cars is top notch.
 As for ridership figures perhaps someone could direct me to a source of reliable up to date figures rather than making unsubstanciated claims.Certainly up to 2007 Network rail said in its Great Western "Route Utilisation strategy" that growth in rail travel from Plymouth and Cornwall was "minimal" compared to that from Exeter and Taunton to London and the Midlands.
 

"minimal" growth is not "less passengers" it still means more people are travelling! The very high seat backs by the way are a requirement for all high speed stock after the Ufton Nervert crash.

[Lee]

As for ridership figures perhaps someone could direct me to a source of reliable up to date figures rather than making unsubstanciated claims.Certainly up to 2007 Network rail said in its Great Western "Route Utilisation strategy" that growth in rail travel from Plymouth and Cornwall was "minimal" compared to that from Exeter and Taunton to London and the Midlands.

I think you might be reffering to the Network Rail Route Plans, because the last Great Western Route Utilisation Strategy was published by the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) in 2006, and Network Rail's new version is due to be published in 2009. Quote from the recent Network Rail Strategic Business Plan Update (link below) :
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/RoutePlans/2008/Route%2012%20-%20Reading%20to%20Penzance.pdf

Between 2000 and 2006 rail passenger demand has grown by up to 20 percent for journeys from Exeter and Taunton to London, and up to 40 percent to the Midlands. However, this is in contrast to the minimal growth for journeys to similar locations from Plymouth, and decline west thereof. Growth in local journeys to Exeter and Plymouth is fairly static.

Further quotes :

Demand for passenger traffic from the south west to London is forecast to grow, as is holiday traffic to Devon and Cornwall. Key to this is the business need for connectivity to London and the south east including Heathrow Airport with journey times from key centres such as Taunton in under two hours, Exeter under two and a half hours and under three hours from Plymouth.

The Department for Transport^s South West Regional Planning Assessment forecasts that demand for journeys towards London in the morning peak will be met throughout the route, up to 2016, by increased service provision. However, by 2026 seating demand is forecast to be in excess of capacity from as far as east of Castle Cary, and by as much as 14 percent. Significant growth is also forecast for local services to Exeter, mainly on the Exmouth branch and from the south Devon area.

Demand for cross country travel is also on the increase and is expected to continue under the new franchise.

Another point of interest is that the line between Plymouth-Par/St Blazey is projected to acheive high tonnage growth to 2017.

On usage figures, the next set are due to be released by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) in May.

[simonw]

Over the past 10-15 years, all rail systems in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) have grown significantly. and there is no reason to suspect this growth to stop, particularly with road congestion and fuel prices.

Whether we like it or not, trains will have to carry more people, and refurbishments that reduce storage, legroom and tables, but add another 50+ seats on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train are essential, if unwelcome.

[Mookiemoo]

Over the past 10-15 years, all rail systems in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) have grown significantly. and there is no reason to suspect this growth to stop, particularly with road congestion and fuel prices.

Whether we like it or not, trains will have to carry more people, and refurbishments that reduce storage, legroom and tables, but add another 50+ seats on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train are essential, if unwelcome.

EXcept there is no point being able to carry more people if they cant take their belongings with them

[dog box]

Over the past 10-15 years, all rail systems in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) have grown significantly. and there is no reason to suspect this growth to stop, particularly with road congestion and fuel prices.

Whether we like it or not, trains will have to carry more people, and refurbishments that reduce storage, legroom and tables, but add another 50+ seats on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) train are essential, if unwelcome.

EXcept there is no point being able to carry more people if they cant take their belongings with them

Ban bikes and use the Luggage area of the TGS For LUGGAGE

[devon_metro]

Then some crackpot terrorist turns up with a bomb...

[Mookiemoo]

Then some crackpot terrorist turns up with a bomb...

Or someone makes off with your luggage at a station where you aren't getting off.

[Conner]

I would say that growth of passenger numbers in Cornwall has been huge. Trains are packed. 2 car DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s now struggle in the middle of the day. It is because fares are rediculosly cheap.

[devon_metro]

Similarly in Devon

[Conner]

Similarly in Devon

Combined with the introduction of 4-car trains making it look like their is more room.