FGW HSTs: worst refurbishment ever?

[whole diary]

[swlines]

Dunno about first class yet - shockingly I travelled in standard.

I only did London to Stevenage, it was a heavily reserved service though (1730 ish off the Cross) and I just found an airline. Decent table though.

[thefab442]

Oh, and about lacking Celia, from what I've heard........ well..... 

Don't be so sure, I'm bidding for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) contract when it comes up!

As long as its not Nagging Northern Nora!

[eightf48544]

This topic seems to have wandered all over the place but the one thing that stands out is what a fabulous concept the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was in the first place.

The problem it has been too sucessful what started out as an IC^▸ (Inter City) train is now trying to be a medium distance semi fast (London - Bristol) and a commuter train (London - Oxford) plus a local train in Cornwall.

Don't foget that London Bristol was an IC route in 1976 it's the HST that's made it a commuter route.

So, however, they are configured refurb they can't do all three jobs satisfactorily.

IC needs more tables and lugggage/bike space. DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) ICs have 30 researvable bike spaces in teh DVT^‡(resolve). It's the crash zone for 220Kph running.

Medium distance probably needs  some tables (a la 166?) but reservable, plus some luggage/bike

Commuter/local don't need tables. but maybe a bike coach al la Southern MLV.

So we are stuck with a generally unsatisfactory refurb trying to make what was an excellent IC train into a commuter train.

As I've said previously the only sensible way out of this dilemma is electrification.

Locos 93s and  Mark 5s with 6X diesel for non electrified part of service. IC services limited stops.

Modern EMUS medium density for semi fasts under the wires all the way. Possibly splitable.

12 coach HD commuter EMUS. 3*4 coach units. Plus MLV?

Modern local DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).

[stebbo]

Electrification would of course be fab except it was noted on another blog there might be clearance issues through the Severn tunnel. There again, I suppose those of us who use (or, if it were reliable, would love to use) the Hereford/Worcester services would get left out.

On the comment about bringing back the Adelantes (properly maintained), how's about running the Hereford early morning and evening services with one Adelante unit between Hereford and Worcester, doubling up from Worcester. The off peak Hereford and Worcester services could be double between Oxford and Paddington.

Oh, I forgot, the Adelante seats aren't great and the overhead racks don't take any sort of decent sized briefcase.

 

[Btline]

Electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) won't happen unless a new railway is built across the Severn (over the proposed barrage).

This is because having 2 tph not electric makes the task not value for money.

But I expect the barrage will get the "M4 Toll."

And I very much doubt the wires would be extended beyond Oxford....

Or Temple Meads....

Or Plymouth.....

And I don't care what people say about "loco changes only take a minute." I may have never witnessed/experienced a loco change, but as far as I am concerned, they would cause delays/ unnecessary long journey times.

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Why did not FGW^▸ (First Great Western) simply switch a First Class carriage to standard in the refurb? That  would have easily got the extra 30 seats (and more) without ripping out tables.

[Mookiemoo]

Electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) won't happen unless a new railway is built across the Severn (over the proposed barrage).

This is because having 2 tph not electric makes the task not value for money.

But I expect the barrage will get the "M4 Toll."

And I very much doubt the wires would be extended beyond Oxford....

Or Temple Meads....

Or Plymouth.....

And I don't care what people say about "loco changes only take a minute." I may have never witnessed/experienced a loco change, but as far as I am concerned, they would cause delays/ unnecessary long journey times.

-----------

Why did not FGW^▸ (First Great Western) simply switch a First Class carriage to standard in the refurb? That  would have easily got the extra 30 seats (and more) without ripping out tables.

At the risk of being flamed.....

Because during the peaks that would leave first class passengers standing at least until Reading if not oxford/swindon

[vacman]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should do away with Leisure advance first class, which (snob mode now) have ruined first class, ^30 from Plymouth to Padd first class? should never be i'm afraid, i'm all for leisure advance in standard class, that way, only have first class open, Saver and Seasons and THEN do away with a first class coach to replace with a standard.
Ever since these cheap first class fares came in the "aura" of first class has gone, with all sorts of riff raff up there with screaming kids, phones blaring out and going up to the buffet saying "how much free stuff can I get with this ticket" and filling their bags up to take home, it sounds snobby of me but it needs to be seen to be believed. First class should be vastly over priced so that it retains that it is just an area for people who want to pay that extra to travel in peace and quite and not worry about their belongings being nicked, or some drunken tramp sleeping on the floor!

[Mookiemoo]

not worry about their belongings being nicked

You dont  know how important that is when you regularly do long journeys on your own

The though of having to pack up all belongings and shut down lappy due to needing a trip to the loo is more than just slightly annoying

[vacman]

not worry about their belongings being nicked

You dont  know how important that is when you regularly do long journeys on your own

The though of having to pack up all belongings and shut down lappy due to needing a trip to the loo is more than just slightly annoying

When I started on the railway all those years ago  , a standard class passenger wouldn't dream of walking into first class as it was a "no go" zone to non first class ticket holders, now days TM^‡(resolve)'s spend half their time on a losing battle to try and evict people from FC^‡(resolve) who are saying things like "there's no free tables in standard so we're staying in First", errrrrm no your flippin not, you want first class you pay for it, the way it is in Devon and Cornwall the FC might aswell be declassified, all the freeloaders who are travelling from say Penzance to Lostwithiel seem to think that just because Lostwithiel has a short platform and only coach G and H are on the platform that it gives them the right to sit in coach G or H for the entire journey! I do sympathise with people like mookiemoo who pay over the odds for first class tickets and then some chav thinks they can also use the same accomodation just because of short platforms, or they're on some super duper advance first class ^1.99 special. its all WRONG!

[Mookiemoo]

not worry about their belongings being nicked

You dont  know how important that is when you regularly do long journeys on your own

The though of having to pack up all belongings and shut down lappy due to needing a trip to the loo is more than just slightly annoying

When I started on the railway all those years ago  , a standard class passenger wouldn't dream of walking into first class as it was a "no go" zone to non first class ticket holders, now days TM^‡(resolve)'s spend half their time on a losing battle to try and evict people from FC^‡(resolve) who are saying things like "there's no free tables in standard so we're staying in First", errrrrm no your flippin not, you want first class you pay for it, the way it is in Devon and Cornwall the FC might aswell be declassified, all the freeloaders who are travelling from say Penzance to Lostwithiel seem to think that just because Lostwithiel has a short platform and only coach G and H are on the platform that it gives them the right to sit in coach G or H for the entire journey! I do sympathise with people like mookiemoo who pay over the odds for first class tickets and then some chav thinks they can also use the same accomodation just because of short platforms, or they're on some super duper advance first class ^1.99 special. its all WRONG!

What annoys me is when you point out to the TM that there is an interloper and they do nothing about it.

Couple of weeks ago (I didnt post at the time for risk of being told to shut up) I was the only passenger in F until some woman got on with her toddler.  You could tell by what she was saying she was not a first class passenger.

I would not have minded - them sitting on the next set of seats made no odds to me - until I had to listen to the constant "ooh look - a cow" - "please stop standing on the seat" - " Whats that hammer for - mummy thinks its to break the glass" and other utterings of mummy amusing child.

I asked the TM would he please do a ticket check as I didnt want to listen to that for the next hour.  Did he - did he heck as like.  By the time I got to hereford (I was going all the way that night) I was close to infanticide.

[Mookiemoo]

Well no, The current HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is not ideal for long distance, an extra carriage with more tables would be more suitable and perhaps the family carriage could have all tabled seating.

A Penzance express would be useless as it would be empty.
It would need to call.
Penzance-St Erth(u)-Camborne(u)-Redruth(u)-Truro(u)-St Austell(u)-Par(u)-Bodmin Parkway(u)-Liskeard(u)-Exeter St Davids(st)-Reading(s)-London Paddington

(u)=Pick up Only
(s)=Set Down Only
(st)=Stop for crew change only

As for that, most of the trains drop off many people in Plymouth for the day, so you would have to put Plymouth into that!! Don't really see the need to stop at par either, unless you can connect from Newquay. Set down only at Reading is a good idea though.

I meant about legroom, obviously the layout could be better but the legroom is the best in the country.

The stop at Par is for Newquay servics.
Well that was the point Mookiemoo was trying to make, they are meant to be long distance and shouldn't be local trains. That is what my timetable is and I did say that they carried lots of people for locla journeys and that it would lose lots of money.

ah, but I bet more people travel to London from Plymouth that Liskeard, so to have a potentially un full HST sailing through at 25mph would be a joke!

But Mookiemoo was saying about a Penzance express.
Plymouth gets enough HST's anyway, not stopping one wouldn't do anything.

My comment on the Cornwall service was an theoretical example - I did confess to not knowing the geography

The fact is .... the cotswalds line ran better when it was first stop oxford - didnt get tied into the reading platform delays and ran more to time than it did agter 2006

I am off to bed as it is 00:50 and I have tio be at WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) for the 05:45 which means being up at 04:45

[Lee]

Electrification of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) won't happen unless a new railway is built across the Severn (over the proposed barrage).

This is because having 2 tph not electric makes the task not value for money.

But I expect the barrage will get the "M4 Toll."

The scheme to build a 10-mile tidal barrage across the Severn Estuary takes a step forward today with the appointment of the company that will manage the environmental study (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=20556303&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

[devon_metro]

Vacman, you will be pleased to know that I have often done Paignton-Bristol return for less than ^5 in First Class when the Daily Fail were running their promo 

Pleased to say i caused no problem and I felt like a God with a WHOLE table 

[Conner]

Pleased to say i caused no problem and I felt like a God with a WHOLE table 

Try the Night Train.
Perfect if you need to get to Penzance fairly early.
Re upholstered First Class seating, 2+1, all at Tables, it is not very busy, and you can use Standard Day Returns.

[swlines]

Didn't know the Night Riviera ran via Paignton?!