Did I dream it????

[whole diary]

[John R]

To prevent repeated usage of such tickets where it is unlikely you will get a ticket check.

So just in case a few people might cheat, everybody has to pay more

Another case of guilty until proven innocent

I cant think of another area where people ASSUME you will cheat

So Mookie, do you suggest we put barriers everywhere and hence (according to your theory) victimise and massivly inconvenience everyone?

Can't win

I don't feel particularly victimised or inconvenienced when I go through the barrier at Temple Meads in the morning. Even if I have to wait 30 seconds because 2 train loads have passengers have arrived at once. Barriers are a highly effective revenue protection tool, and if someone buys a ticket from Reading to Reading West and are then challenged then they are clearly fare-dodging, and deserve what they get.

[Btline]

To prevent repeated usage of such tickets where it is unlikely you will get a ticket check.

So just in case a few people might cheat, everybody has to pay more

Another case of guilty until proven innocent

I cant think of another area where people ASSUME you will cheat

So Mookie, do you suggest we put barriers everywhere and hence (according to your theory) victimise and massivly inconvenience everyone?

Can't win

I don't feel particularly victimised or inconvenienced when I go through the barrier at Temple Meads in the morning. Even if I have to wait 30 seconds because 2 train loads have passengers have arrived at once. Barriers are a highly effective revenue protection tool, and if someone buys a ticket from Reading to Reading West and are then challenged then they are clearly fare-dodging, and deserve what they get.

Yes, but with HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), they are unlikely to be caught!

[devon_metro]

Mookiemoo, can I suggest a career change to head of revenue protection, i'm sure the industry experts would love to hear your radical plan to change things 

[John R]

Nor DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). Family went from Nailsea to Weston on Sunday. Outward journey was very lightly loaded service. No attempt on either journey to check our tickets. Wasn't sure whether Groupsave was cheapest ticket so didn't buy at ticket machine. So if I hadn't gone to ticket office on arrival at Weston would have travelled for free. (Ticket office was closed by the time we returned.)

    

[Mookiemoo]

Mookiemoo, can I suggest a career change to head of revenue protection, i'm sure the industry experts would love to hear your radical plan to change things 

It is not a plan to change things as you well know - I'm merely pointing out that barriers, if one applies logic and forethought, do not actually solve the problem.

[John R]

Mookiemoo, can I suggest a career change to head of revenue protection, i'm sure the industry experts would love to hear your radical plan to change things 

It is not a plan to change things as you well know - I'm merely pointing out that barriers, if one applies logic and forethought, do not actually solve the problem.

I think the evidence is that they increase revenue significantly. So they minimise (not eliminate) a) faredodgers, b) passengers expecting and willing to pay who when faced with no barrier walk straight through.

[vacman]

Mookiemoo, can I suggest a career change to head of revenue protection, i'm sure the industry experts would love to hear your radical plan to change things 

It is not a plan to change things as you well know - I'm merely pointing out that barriers, if one applies logic and forethought, do not actually solve the problem.

Nothing could ever SOLVE the problem because society has changed, but barriers are VERY effective as the average faredodger is far to fu**ing thick to buy a ticket to the next station etc etc, barriers have PROVED to be the most effective form of revenue protection, if they weren't then TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wouldn't be justified in spending hundreds of millions installing them!

[Mookiemoo]

Mookiemoo, can I suggest a career change to head of revenue protection, i'm sure the industry experts would love to hear your radical plan to change things 

It is not a plan to change things as you well know - I'm merely pointing out that barriers, if one applies logic and forethought, do not actually solve the problem.

Nothing could ever SOLVE the problem because society has changed, but barriers are VERY effective as the average faredodger is far to fu**ing thick to buy a ticket to the next station etc etc, barriers have PROVED to be the most effective form of revenue protection, if they weren't then TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wouldn't be justified in spending hundreds of millions installing them!

And whilst I personally do not like barriers for genuine reasons - the times my train has been sitting on the platform about to leave but for reasons beyond my control I have not got a ticket yet OR my ticket is SOMEWHERE in my bag but I cant find it in time etc etc etc and when your next train could be two hours away it is not good to have the sphincter police saying no go

However ...... I can vaguely accept this whilst suggesting that if they employ native speakers who have the innate ability to apply common sense and the intelligence to note if they see someone every day and just once they dont have their ticket in hand its probably ok (this actually happened at slough where they ended up recognising me and actually happens at REading because I take time to acknowledge their presence and say thank you and please)

Charging me more to come back tomorrow on the same train as I would today just because someone would use their return tice - sorry, if they have intelligence to work that out, they have the intelligence to buy a ticket to the next station

[Mookiemoo]

Actually what I think should happen is this - they treat everyone as if honest

BUT do random (but not rare) checks

If you are caught dodging then you are either (a) given a custodial sentence (b) have all your benefits stopped (c) at a minimum have a criminal record (d) thrown into the equivalent of the work house

Of course it is not going to happen but it doesnt mean to say it should not.

The problem is, if the fine is what it is, its worth chancing it

Make it so reprehensible the honest wont do it - and those that do are scum

[John R]

You forgot the stocks and pillories.

[Mookiemoo]

You forgot the stocks and pillories.

Probably

But given the vitriol on here against people with no ticket ..........


Its a valid solution

[Tim]

To prevent repeated usage of such tickets where it is unlikely you will get a ticket check.

Is there any evidence that this strategy works?  I can see why open returns, where both portions are valid for a month are open to abuse, but with a saver return, you could in theory use the return portion more than once but as you can only use the outbound portion on the issue date you would have to either make lots of one way journeys or divise a fairly complex scheme of ticket purchasing to cheat with the return portion.  I find it had to believe that this happens to a significant degree.  The logic also assumes that Intercity trains will have more and better ticket checks than locals.  This is not my experience of reality.  Of all the tickets I use, the ones that are least lickly to get stamped are the Bath-London open returns.  At over ^100 a ticket even an honest chap like me would be tempted to reuse them if I wasn't usually on expenses.

   

[swlines]

Consider this.

Two Saver Returns, both dated for the same direction, one from A to B, one from B to A.

Return portions valid allow a "2nd" trip within a 1 month. And a third if it's not gripped, and a fourth.... and a fifth...

[Mookiemoo]

Consider this.

Two Saver Returns, both dated for the same direction, one from A to B, one from B to A.

Return portions valid allow a "2nd" trip within a 1 month. And a third if it's not gripped, and a fourth.... and a fifth...

But since we've concluded that most fare dodgers are too thick to even work out getting a ticket to the next station to get through the barriers, they are surely going to too thick to work this out as well.

[swlines]

You'd be surprised.

I've seen a number of people trying this trick - successfully....