Class action v South Eastern & SW Trains.

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

https://abcommuters.com/2021/10/20/major-class-action-lawsuit-to-go-forward-against-southeastern-and-south-western-rail-franchises/

Sounds interesting!

[infoman]

Do they have sufficent funds to continue with the class action?

is their a "just giving" type web page. 

[TaplowGreen]

Do they have sufficent funds to continue with the class action?

is their a "just giving" type web page. 

From the Boundary Fares claim website;

Who is paying for the claim?

Whilst Mr. Gutmann is seeking to be the class representative and run this collective action for the class, he is not able to fund a claim of this size and public importance on his own. Therefore, Mr. Gutmann is working with a specialist litigation funder, Woodsford Litigation Funding Limited, to bring the claim.

The non-confidential version of certain documents relevant to the funding of the claim, namely the Litigation Funding Agreement, the Adverse Cost Deed of Indemnity, and the After-the-Event Insurance Policy can be provided upon request by emailing info@BoundaryFares.com.

Mr. Gutmann has also secured £10 million to cover for the Proposed Defendants’ costs in the event that the claim is unsuccessful.

[JayMac]

Both of these cases could have far reaching consequences for TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company). If precedents are set then it could unleash a flurry of court cases around fares regulation.

[grahame]

See also https://www.boundaryfares.com

[ChrisB]

It will be interesting to see how this progresses.

Nothing prevents a travelcard holder buying a ticket extension from the boundary station to their destination - certainly no reason to buy again over the part covered by the travelcard, so its going to he difficult to prosecute that part of the action.

However, occasionally, the boundary ticket is cheaper than the extension (never understood why!) & that part of the action is definitely winable. But the difference tends to be a couple of wuid or so, so a win won’t likely produce much in the way of damages.

[Ralph Ayres]

I think the point being made is that boundary extension tickets are often infernally difficult to buy from some ticket machines.  This may mean Travelcard holders aren't aware of them (though you might expect people at least to ask "do I have to pay twice when I've got a ticket covering part of the journey?") or that even those who know about them can't buy one.

I do wonder what's behind this and why Justin Gutmann is taking it on.  There's no mention of having previously attempted to get the Train Companies to increase awareness of these tickets or make buying them easier, either by direct pressure or via watchdog bodies.  I suspect the main beneficiaries will be the lawyers.

[ChrisB]

I think the point being made is that boundary extension tickets are often infernally difficult to buy from some ticket machines.  This may mean Travelcard holders aren't aware of them (though you might expect people at least to ask "do I have to pay twice when I've got a ticket covering part of the journey?")

I'm sure that will be part of any defence!

[TaplowGreen]

I think the point being made is that boundary extension tickets are often infernally difficult to buy from some ticket machines.  This may mean Travelcard holders aren't aware of them (though you might expect people at least to ask "do I have to pay twice when I've got a ticket covering part of the journey?")

I'm sure that will be part of any defence!

Caveat Venditor

[Surrey 455]

MyLondon has also reported on this. Unusually for them, it seems a well written article

From My London

The dispute is over 'boundary tickets'. These are tickets which enable you to travel from the edge of a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) fare zone to somewhere beyond it without having to get off the train at the boundary, buy a new ticket again and continue your journey. Crucially, they avoid someone who already has a valid Travelcard for part of their route paying twice for the same journey.

The problem is, at Southeastern and SWR^» (South Western Railway - about), you cannot buy these 'boundary tickets' on their websites, over the phone or at ticket machines.

Instead, you have to go to a staffed ticket office counter and ask the colleague for a ticket to or from 'Boundary of Zone 6' (or whichever zone you require).

My first thought when I heard of this action a few days ago was how can these people not possibly know they can buy a ticket from Boundary zone 6  to their destination. After all I have been doing just that for approximately 30 years.

But then I wondered how I came across this knowledge. I suspect I had used my all zones annual travelcard (Gold card) to make a journey to a Central London terminus and then visited the ticket office to buy a ticket to somewhere outside London. I would have shown my Gold card to get the discounted fare and the ticket clerk must have noticed that my travelcard already covered part of the journey and must have told me that they could issue me a ticket from Boundary zone 6 instead. Armed with this new knowledge, I would then have requested future journeys from London to Network South East destinations to start from the edge of London instead.


So, I now have sympathy for those who were not aware of the boundary zone tickets.

Note: the outer zone is now zone 6 but back then it would have been either zone 5 or perhaps zone 3c.

[paul7575]

I’m pretty sure the original reasoning for only selling them at ticket offices was that as an extension to an existing travelcard, there was no other way of checking you really had a valid travelcard.

Still not sure how any individual would prove they’ve lost out in the past.

[ChrisB]

Yes, that’scmy understanding too. Still is.