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Bmblbzzz
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« on: October 12, 2021, 20:47:44 » |
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The RMT▸ are warning: RMT Press Office:
RMT warns that electricity price hike threatens to destroy rail freight and jack up dirty diesel use.
RAIL UNION RMT warned today that a 200% increase from Network Rail on electricity charges to rail freight operators risks wrecking the industry while jacking up the use of diesel on both rail and road – making a nonsense of the Government's CO2 targets.
General Secretary Mick Lynch said:
“As COP26 approaches the Government have to step in to stop this carnage on our railways.
“With the road haulage industry already in turmoil, and with the threat of empty shelves this Christmas, we should be encouraging the use of rail freight not battering it into submission with electricity charges that will add millions of pounds to rail freight companies’ bills, with one operator reporting an £8M increase in costs.
“It's a nonsense that it will be far cheaper to run dirty, polluting diesel units rather than the clean electric alternative. The government cannot wash their hands of this and must step in to support the green rail option before it’s too late. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/electricity-price-hike-threatens-rail-freight/I'm not sure why freight in particular? |
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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stuving
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 23:39:31 » |
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The RMT▸ words refer to "electricity charges to rail freight operators", saying they will suddenly be tripled, which does stretch one's credulity a bit. This rate was set for 2021/22 by this letter sent out in March 2021. Anyway, if you read down in the letter it says the rate for electricity used is 9.991p/kWh. various distribution costs and additional charges are added to that, but not as a fixed rate. For charter operators these are fixed at the system-wide average, and add 2.434p to give 12.425p/kWh. So what is going on? Given the upheavals in energy prices (notably for gas) one might expect an emergency increase, though not of that size. But the wording of the letter does appear to rule that out - the price is "locked" by NR» 's supplier. So has that supplier had gone bust? Anyone heard anything? I have read the supplier is EDF, claiming NR is only given nuclear power, so it's obviously not literal bankruptcy here. |
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broadgage
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 11:50:22 » |
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I expect that the wholesale cost of electricity will about double, due largely to the increased gas price.
However diesel fuel is also increasing in price, only modestly so far, but I expect further increases.
I suspect that electricity meters will soon become a network rail requirement for new or refurbished electric locomotives and multiple units.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Electric train
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 11:53:58 » |
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Network Rail has a contracted tariff with its electricity supplier, certainly in the SE most of the electricity used is derived from renewable or France
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 12:11:20 » |
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Network Rail has a contracted tariff with its electricity supplier, certainly in the SE most of the electricity used is derived from renewable or France
Blimey if it's from France it'll probably be cut off soon judging by the way Macron is foaming at the mouth!  |
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stuving
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 12:36:29 » |
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I suspect that electricity meters will soon become a network rail requirement for new or refurbished electric locomotives and multiple units.
Network rail have operated a metered traction power service for ten years. There is a standard metering data interface, and users are charged for power consumed plus an addition for distribution costs and losses. The alternative is for power consumption to be worked out based on simulations, using the same distance and load data as for variable track charges. I can't find any data on how much traction power is metered, but I expect the simulated rates will be set a little high, which will encourage its use. |
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stuving
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 12:42:45 » |
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There are now some comments on Twitter from the usual suspects confirming that the EC4T rates have been suddenly increased - but no more detail yet.
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bradshaw
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2021, 14:20:17 » |
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stuving
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2021, 14:41:41 » |
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That refers to "a steep rise in wholesale electricity prices of more than 200% between September and October". So this is not the "locked tariff" notified in the NR» letter I linked to yesterday. Here is a paragraph from that NR letter: Under the terms of Network Rail’s contract with its electricity supplier, train operators that expect to use more than 450,000 kWh in a railway year are able to lock the energy commodity tariff for their forecast amount of consumption, if they wish. If they do not wish to lock their own prices then the default rate will be the month ahead rate and will be locked by Network Rail a few days before the start of each calendar month. In other words, these are operators that have chosen to pay the spot market rate for their electricity. No doubt in "normal" times this is cheaper than a rate locked for a year or so, but that saving comes with risks. And now there is a flock of chickens heading roostwards. |
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eightonedee
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2021, 14:42:38 » |
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Over to Grant Shapps to explain this in the context of the Government's green agenda.....
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broadgage
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2021, 15:54:27 » |
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This I find shocking, and rather surprising. |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2021, 16:05:40 » |
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This I find shocking, and rather surprising. What would you suggest they do as an alternative? |
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broadgage
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2021, 17:36:46 » |
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This I find shocking, and rather surprising. What would you suggest they do as an alternative? If I was in charge, I would have considered carrying on with electric traction, and advertising this. "Look at our commitment to the environment, we are using green electricity, despite dirty diesel being cheaper" |
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2021, 18:09:50 » |
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Despite the increase in electricity costs, I find it very surprising the diesel power is cheaper.
Electricity for railway traction is reportedly charged at about 12.5 pence a unit.
Red diesel is currently available at about 75 pence a liter, in bulk, delivered.
Diesel fuel consumption of a diesel generator is about 200 liters per MWH. Or about 5 kwh per liter.
That is 15 pence a kwh from diesel fuel, presuming good efficiency, a more pessimistic estimate might be 20 pence a unit for electricity from diesel.
Cant find relevant figure for diesel locomotives, but the figures for diesel generators should be comparable since the engines are of similar size, worked under somewhat similar conditions, and all modern locomotives use electric transmission.
12.5 pence a unit is still less than 15 or 20 pence a unit.
Electric locomotives should also save on maintenance, though this is harder to quantify.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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stuving
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2021, 18:21:37 » |
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That is 15 pence a kwh from diesel fuel, presuming good efficiency, a more pessimistic estimate might be 20 pence a unit for electricity from diesel.
Cant find relevant figure for diesel locomotives, but the figures for diesel generators should be comparable since the engines are of similar size, worked under somewhat similar conditions, and all modern locomotives use electric transmission.
12.5 pence a unit is still less than 15 or 20 pence a unit.
That price was the year's "locked" rate. Presumably the spot market rate six months ago was a bit below that. The quotes suggest that market rate has tripled. A quick poke at Google comes up with this graph, showing daily market rates in £/GWh (divide by 10 for p/kWh). These FOCs▸ are being charged via NR» at a rate fixed monthly for a month, which presumably has been behaving a bit less overexcitedly than the daily one.  There are further data, e.g. on just wind-powered electricity, on the same site. |
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