Groupsave - can anyone clarify?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Researching / checking on journey prices from Melksham to Chippenham, writing a comparison of bus, train and taxi fares.  The train fare is £4.50 single and £5.00 return and there is no off peak fare offered. What about Groupsave?

Statements from various official sources (National Rail, Trainline, various TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)):

1. Groups of three to nine adults can get 1/3 off Off-Peak tickets when travelling together. The group must travel together at all times.

2. GroupSave is a discount of up to 34% for adults travelling on a single or return journey at Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak times in groups of 3 to 9 people

3. You can use your group train tickets at Off-Peak times. This means outside busy times on weekdays, and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays.  Because the savings with your GroupSave ticket are so good, unfortunately Railcards cannot be used for additional discounts.  For your ticket to be valid your whole group must travel together on the same train. It’s important to know that there are some days when GroupSave cannot be used on some services, for example when there are major events taking place. Here are the restrictions for the next 12 weeks.

4. What ticket is the GroupSave discount valid on?
You can get benefit from our GroupSave discount on the following tickets:
Anytime Day Single (at Off-Peak times)
Off-Peak Day & Super Off Peak Day Single & Return
Off-Peak Day & Super Off Peak Day Travelcard from outside London
Off-Peak Return

1. Suggests that we CANNOT use Groupsave on Melksham to Chippenham tickets at all
2. Suggests we CAN but must not use the 05:33, 07:20 or 07:51
3. Suggests we CAN but not on the 07:20 or 07:51
4. Suggests we CAN on single tickets but not on return tickets

If answer (1) is correct - 3 x £5 = £15 - are we allowed off peak to buy a Groupsave off peak Trowbridge to Chippenham at £12.20 and join short outbound and leave early inbound, saving £2.80?

[brooklea]

brfares website (obviously not official, although it draws its data from official sources) indicates the Groupsave fare from Melksham to Chippenham is £3.30 per person https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains)&dest=CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains)&rlc=GS3

A search on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website for fares for three adults from Melksham to Chippenham day return tomorrow offers the same fare (£9.90 for three people) on departures from Melksham at 10:02 and all trains after that.

I’d be satisfied that Groupsave can be used on the strength of that evidence.

[plymothian]

For Groupsave tickets where no off peak fares are available, a nominal off peak time of 0930 (in general) is applied to the ticket.

You can see this by selecting the ticket on brfares, the unpublished restriction RV is in your case placed against a B1
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=mkm&dest=cpm&rlc=GS3&tkt=SDR
https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MKM^» (Melksham (Station code) - next trains)&dest=CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains)&rlc=GS3&tkt=SDS

[CyclingSid]

More generally, don't forget they are not valid on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

[plymothian]

An update to Groupsaves, they now have their own restriction code (RV) - this is does not have its own nationalrail page but essentially boils down to:
not valid 0001 - 0929 on any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)
not valid any time on EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about), GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains), LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about), Hull Trains, Merseyrail, Northern, Scotrail, TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express), Avanti EC, Crosscountry, TfW, London Underground, Lumo, Caledonian Sleeper or Night Riviera
not valid for travel to/from Heathrow, London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers)
not valid to depart Paddington at 1404/1504/1604/1704/1804 except for travel to/beyond Exeter St Davids (Fridays Only)

[ChrisB]

An update to Groupsaves, they now have their own restriction code (RV) - this is does not have its own nationalrail page but essentially boils down to:
not valid 0001 - 0929 on any TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)
not valid any time on EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about), GCR^» (Gloucester - next trains), LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about), Hull Trains, Merseyrail, Northern, Scotrail, TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express), Avanti EC, Crosscountry, TfW, London Underground, Lumo, Caledonian Sleeper or Night Riviera
not valid for travel to/from Heathrow, London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers)
not valid to depart Paddington at 1404/1504/1604/1704/1804 except for travel to/beyond Exeter St Davids (Fridays Only)

Do you mean Avanti WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority))? (West Coast)