South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed

[whole diary]

[grahame]

On 49 - 60 minute connections... "They have tried and failed to find these" ??

I was gobsmacked, I admit.

My times are from the arrival time of the train you would arrive on to the departure time of the train you are departing on.   If you simple look at both departure times, as a line in a public timetable might read for an intermediate station, you are down from 49 and 59 minutes to 45 and 57 minutes - but that's not really the connection time. Passengers arriving on a train from London or Cardiff don't care how long it sits in Salisbury platform once they have got off, before it carries on to Exeter or Portsmouth

[Mark A]

This made me chuckle. A tight Usenet thread from *18* years ago - on the Bristol to Waterloo services - a time when SWT^▸ (South West Trains) had just taken them on.

A strong groundhog vibe to some of this, and while, yes, apparently I attended a West Wilts User Group meeting in Bradford on Avon that had had an SWT representative as a speaker, I've scant recollection of having done so let alone making notes and slinging them to Usenet. But... the internet never forgets...

So, let's set the dials back to 2003, and I kick off a thread with

"Anyone here used the new (BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to WAT) SWT service yet?"

https://uk.railway.narkive.com/I5OeoQgV/bristol-to-waterloo

[grahame]

This made me chuckle. A tight Usenet thread from *18* years ago - on the Bristol to Waterloo services - a time when SWT^▸ (South West Trains) had just taken them on.

A strong groundhog vibe to some of this, and while, yes, apparently I attended a West Wilts User Group meeting in Bradford on Avon that had had an SWT representative as a speaker, I've scant recollection of having done so let alone making notes and slinging them to Usenet. But... the internet never forgets...

So, let's set the dials back to 2003, and I kick off a thread with

"Anyone here used the new (BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to WAT) SWT service yet?"

https://uk.railway.narkive.com/I5OeoQgV/bristol-to-waterloo

So many important lessons in there, Mark, that I have taken the liberty of putting a copy of the key posts in our members mirror at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/mirror/ma_2004.pdf

Some things are - remarkably - similar some 18 years late!

The trains turned into a real embarrassment when in rearranging Waterloo, the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) wanted to kill them, and then found that, awkwardly for everyone, demand was buoyant, especially east of Bristol.

And they have found the same thing again this time!

When when news of their demise escaped, letters started to land on everyone's desks, 3000 signature petitions started flying about even from West Wiltshire: so the SRA bowed to political pressure and requested that SWT look at the service and make some proposals.

Well - we've doubled the petition numbers this time!

With regards to Salisbury, one of his assistants quite candidly stated that many Salisbury connections had been deliberately broken some years ago, as passengers from the Bristol direction were delaying London bound trains on tight cross platform connections

Can't have passengers delaying trains, can we??


One of the fears of the train specifiers and operators is that - if they give way to a campaign - those who have campaigned won't stick around to support the improvements made.  I would like to re-assure anyone who's reading this that - yes - we will stick around, we will use the service, we will help to tune and market it if you will let us.

1. Make people aware that there's a case to be looked at
2. Get it looked at properly and work out the best way forward
3. Get that best way forward implemented
4. Promote, market, tune in partnership

How does that sound?

It's the philosophy and approach taken by "Save the Train" and the successor organsations as we moved from something set up for protest to something set up for partnering again, and the lessons could and should be modified for the London services from West Wilts.  Historically, Community Rail had little to do with longer distance stuff - which a lot of this is - but it now might.  And Community Rail is "lite" from Bradford-on-Avon through Salisbury - much more could be done.

It's going to require confidence and trust to be rebuilt, but I personally would be up for it - even at the current time where I feel that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are still fillibustering to time out the current service, and where I suspect our MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) might have been instructed to make enough noise to keep their constituents happy that they're looking out for them, but to not push the government so hard that they actually have to stop the cull.

OK - enough of the negative. Next post to write - looking at those ideas of 9 trains a day, portion working, Cardiff extensions, Wimbledon and Surbiton calls amd see how they look in 2021 as opposed to 2004.  Add in MetroWest synchronisation and the move to a much more leisure and part time commuter market, and look forward to what should be done.  That's part of the "getting it looked at propoerly" stage which, sad to say, I don't think has happened yet.

Connectivity is important - in the news all around us - to Okehampton, and London to Newquay and Dundee.  What's so amazing is that the Goverment seems set on removing that London to Wiltshire connectivity, against all external expert advice and a petition, this time, over 6,000 strong.

[Mark A]

ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) passenger usage of stations 2020-2021

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/estimates-of-station-usage

My eye was caught by the figure of ~40,000 interchanges at Salisbury as that sound like SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)'s favourite quote of '20 per train' for the through Bristol Waterloo services. But then, this is 'Coronavirus year' with all manner of things being thrown at the system. I've not yet waded into the data for previous years...

Mark

[grahame]

ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) passenger usage of stations 2020-2021

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/estimates-of-station-usage

My eye was caught by the figure of ~40,000 interchanges at Salisbury as that sound like SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)'s favourite quote of '20 per train' for the through Bristol Waterloo services. But then, this is 'Coronavirus year' with all manner of things being thrown at the system. I've not yet waded into the data for previous years...

Mark

An interesting figure ... I need to think what it might mean.  Of course, passengers using through services from Bristol to London through Salisbury won't (or should not) be included in "interchanges". Further, it's well known - at least to users of these services - that the connection when there's no through service is often so awful it puts people off.

And, yes, Coronavirus year.  Salisbury's entrance and exit figures were down by 76% - to 455,306 from 1,904,276

[Mark A]

2018 - 19 figures were 208417, which is just about where you felt the 'East of salisbury towards Bristol' flow would be if the railways took the brakes off it. Something that would pay for a lot of lineside vegetation trimming.

[Mark A]

Strange year. Stratford's knocked Waterloo off the top spot for busiest station. Waterloo's held that crown for 16 years.

[bradshaw]

It is not just the Bristol services, a points failure at Yeovil Pen Mill has led to the cancellation of all SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services using the station since Wednesday, 24th.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services were cancelled until mid-afternoon the same day and have been running ever since.
Now SWT Help are saying that this state of affairs will continue to end of service on Sunday.

Presumably the problem is at the Weymouth end of the station, even though some GWR services seem to be running from Platform 3 to 1 via Signal 64 which is beyond the starter signals.

[brooklea]

It is not just the Bristol services, a points failure at Yeovil Pen Mill has led to the cancellation of all SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services using the station since Wednesday, 24th.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services were cancelled until mid-afternoon the same day and have been running ever since.
Now SWT Help are saying that this state of affairs will continue to end of service on Sunday.

Presumably the problem is at the Weymouth end of the station, even though some GWR services seem to be running from Platform 3 to 1 via Signal 64 which is beyond the starter signals.

GWR services are all using platform 1, as there are no SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) services for them to cross at Yeovil because of the points problem.

Signal 64 is at the Castle Cary end of Yeovil Pen Mill, so the planned shunting of GWR trains from platform 3 to 1 would not have used the points at the Weymouth end of the station in any event.

I see that GWR have amended what would have been an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) back to Westbury this evening to provide a passenger service running at the time of the cancelled 1926 SWR service from Yeovil Pen Mill to Westbury.

[PhilWakely]

It is not just the Bristol services, a points failure at Yeovil Pen Mill has led to the cancellation of all SWT^▸ (South West Trains) services using the station since Wednesday, 24th.

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services were cancelled until mid-afternoon the same day and have been running ever since.
Now SWT Help are saying that this state of affairs will continue to end of service on Sunday.

Presumably the problem is at the Weymouth end of the station, even though some GWR services seem to be running from Platform 3 to 1 via Signal 64 which is beyond the starter signals.

GWR services are all using platform 1, as there are no SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) services for them to cross at Yeovil because of the points problem.

Signal 64 is at the Castle Cary end of Yeovil Pen Mill, so the planned shunting of GWR trains from platform 3 to 1 would not have used the points at the Weymouth end of the station in any event.

I see that GWR have amended what would have been an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) back to Westbury this evening to provide a passenger service running at the time of the cancelled 1926 SWR service from Yeovil Pen Mill to Westbury.

I note that - despite SWR cancelling all scheduled services through Pen Mill because of the points failure - all SWR Exeter-bound services are being diverted through Westbury and Pen Mill because of a damaged train (having hit a tree) near Templecombe.

[brooklea]

I note that - despite SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) cancelling all scheduled services through Pen Mill because of the points failure - all SWR Exeter-bound services are being diverted through Westbury and Pen Mill because of a damaged train (having hit a tree) near Templecombe.

Possibly the case that the faulty points can be used in the trailing direction, but are not ok for facing moves by passenger trains?

[stuving]

I note that - despite SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) cancelling all scheduled services through Pen Mill because of the points failure - all SWR Exeter-bound services are being diverted through Westbury and Pen Mill because of a damaged train (having hit a tree) near Templecombe.

Possibly the case that the faulty points can be used in the trailing direction, but are not ok for facing moves by passenger trains?

Desperate need may be part of it. SWR say the tree is now moved, the train not yet (11:52). But the signallers have written "ROOF" on both tracks near Sherborne, so there's now two directions to cope with.

[bradshaw]

Both sleepers ran via Pen Mill last night, which makes the continued SWT^▸ (South West Trains) cancellations seem rather strange.

[PhilWakely]

Both sleepers ran via Pen Mill last night, which makes the continued SWT^▸ (South West Trains) cancellations seem rather strange.

From what I've heard (not officially confirmed), it is not possible for two trains to pass at Pen Mill without serious shunting operations as only one platform is accessible from the north. I believe that SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) feel that this would interfere with their operations.

[bradshaw]

Yet this service arrived on p3 from Gloucester, then ecs to p1 via sig64, while most of the other arr/dep p1

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V31557/2021-11-26/detailed