UK government's Transport decarbonisation plan

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

Most maize grown in Europe, if it doesn't go to bioethanol, goes to feed livestock. In the USA, it it doesn't go feed livestock, it mostly goes to produce "high fructose corn syrup", a very cheap way of making processed foods sweet without having to print "sugar" in the ingredients. Very little goes to feed humans directly as corn on the cob or tins of sweetcorn.

[broadgage]

I support renewable energy provided that this is not in competition with food crops. My feelings may be summarised as follows.

Solar on new or existing buildings--------------In favour.
Solar farms in the open--------------------------In favour with reservations due to land taken up.
Wind, onshore or off------------------------------In favour.
Tidal power----------------------------------------in favour.
Bio ethanol----------------------------------------Opposed, except* on a small scale in exceptional circumstances
Bio Diesel------------------------------------------Opposed, as above.
Imported wood chips-----------------------------Opposed, de-forestation, fuel used in transport.
Locally harvested logs----------------------------In favour.
Burning waste wood for fuel----------------------In favour if not imported.
Hydroelectric power-------------------------------In favour, but note limited scope for expansion.
Wave power----------------------------------------Maybe, but has been the "next big thing" for decades.
Methane from anaerobic digestion----------------Yes but only if the inputs are truly waste.

*Bio fuels may be justified on a small scale for agriculture and other vital uses, can compare well with growing oats to feed horses. Not for general flying and driving. Bio ethanol is a useful fuel for small scale uses in emergencies or whilst camping etc.

[grahame]

I was wondering about solar on roads ... https://ecavo.com/solar-roads/

[broadgage]

I was wondering about solar on roads ... https://ecavo.com/solar-roads/

Very silly idea IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion). Making PV modules able to withstand the very frequent cyclic loading of vehicles is no doubt possible, but it sounds expensive and unreliable. Consider not just normal vehicles but the odd exceptional load.
This sounds like the sort of thing that HMG like "GREEN INNOVATION"
Many more sensible alternatives exist, including PV modules along the central reservation, PV modules atop motorway service stations, and roofing the parking areas with PV. All readily achievable with today's off the shelf technology, no research needed, just get on and do it.

[Red Squirrel]

As a slight aside (presumably there isn't really much prospect of barges having a very big future outside of leisure!) I found this YouTube video interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jsb72nCRE

There are obvious advantages to electrifying barges, as anyone who has been in the bottom of a lock filled with diesel fumes could attest. Noise is another obvious issue; it seems odd to head off down the cut for a bit of peace and quiet using a puttering engine.

As with all these things, there are choices: parallel hybrids, serial hybrids and pure electrics, for example, and a variety of battery technologies. What struck me as particularly intriguing was that if you cover the top of an 18m barge with solar panels, they should produce about 3kw on a good day - which is just about right to keep the barge motoring along. On a bad day, you might only get a third of that, but you probably won't be motoring all day and you'll be charging your battery when you moor up. Heavy batteries are neither here nor there in a vehicle which travels at a brisk walking pace.

I think it is likely that electric barges will become very popular quite quickly.

[broadgage]

I agree that battery powered barges have a future, mainly for leisure.
A battery large enough to propel the barge can also supply domestic power for lighting, cooking, and perhaps limited heating. This would replace the fossil fuels used for these purposes.

If PV charging was found inadequate, then charging from a shore supply is possible at some moorings.

3 KW sounds excessive for a barge. They used to use a horse, which has an output of a bit less* than one horsepower* One horsepower is about 750 watts mechanical output from a motor, or about 900 watts electrical input after allowing for losses in the motor and drive circuit.

*The original definition of the horsepower involved an actual horse, but perhaps it was an unusually large and strong example.

[Bmblbzzz]

As a slight aside (presumably there isn't really much prospect of barges having a very big future outside of leisure!)...

Go tell them on the Rhein!

[TonyK]

I was wondering about solar on roads ... https://ecavo.com/solar-roads/

I saw a suggestion in Another Place some months ago that motorways should have wind turbines along the central reservation. After watching a number of enthusiastic supporting comments build up, I pointed out that a) bits fall off regularly b) they would be very distracting c) the motorway would have to be closed for several months to install them, then at regular intervals thereafter for maintenance. That remains the last comment on the subject. Solar obviously went a bit further, with actual solar roads built, but doesn't seem to have fared much better. I did, however, see a solar railway in Japan. Riding from the centre of Tokyo to Narita airport on the Metro, we passed mile after mile of solar panels. I found later that when a new northerly line to the airport had been built, the boffins decided that there was no need for four track now, and replaced two tracks with solar panels.

[stuving]

As a slight aside (presumably there isn't really much prospect of barges having a very big future outside of leisure!) I found this YouTube video interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jsb72nCRE

Was that meant to be counterflow thread drift? Because Decarbonising Transport etc. does contain this as an atomic commitment:

We will support and encourage modal shift of freight from road to more sustainable alternatives, such as rail, cargo bike and inland waterways

The support for that in the main text says (P 139):

The Mode Shift Revenue Support¹⁵¹ and Waterborne Freight Grant Schemes¹⁵² which will continue to incentivise modal shift and help to remove around 900,000 HGV loads off the road each year.¹⁵³

151 DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (2020). Mode Shift Revenue Support (MSRS) grant scheme 2020 to 2025 (online). Available at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mode-shift-revenue-support-msrs-grant-scheme [this is for shifts to rail or canals]
152 DfT (2020). Waterborne Freight Grant Scheme 2020 to2025 (online). Available at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/waterborne-freight-grant-scheme [this is mainly for coastal shipping]
153 DfT (n.d.). Internal DfT analysis


Incidentally, why do they (whoever they are ) keep pushing Modal as a suitable fibre for shifts? I've found it suffers badly from pilling. (Note: not Pilning. Or piling.)

[Red Squirrel]

I'd missed the bit about inland waterways in the report. But I don't suppose they mean narrow boar canals, surely?

Not sure about modal fibre. A bit of moral fibre might help us in these difficult times...

[Lee]

Not sure about modal fibre. A bit of moral fibre might help us in these difficult times...

Too many people quite happy to preach and talk the talk but not walk the walk, I find on that front, particularly over the past year or so.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'd missed the bit about inland waterways in the report. But I don't suppose they mean narrow boar canals, surely?

I don't think they would get much use: there are very few skinny pigs.

[Red Squirrel]

I'd missed the bit about inland waterways in the report. But I don't suppose they mean narrow boar canals, surely?

I don't think they would get much use: there are very few skinny pigs.

A good point. I must research these things better in future.

[stuving]

I'd missed the bit about inland waterways in the report. But I don't suppose they mean narrow boar canals, surely?

Well, most inland waterways are narrow in important places - like locks. The wide bits, like rivers, don't go very far on one level.

But what this MSRS scheme involves is HMG offering money, and sitting around waiting for applications to come in. So they don't need to have a clue whether it makes sense, other people will work that out for them. It started in February 2020, and I can't see any data about how many grants have been approved. I'd guess not a lot - it's tempting to guess none, but in this funny old world there's bound to be a couple of things it could work for.

[ellendune]

Well, most inland waterways are narrow in important places - like locks. The wide bits, like rivers, don't go very far on one level.

Some narrower than others.

There are also some wider waterways such as the Aire and Calder Navigation and the Manchester Shop Canal.  The Thames in London might also be useful.