stuving
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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2021, 10:32:17 » |
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Re the Burneside incident, not trying to excuse the car driver at all, but ensuring there are adequate sight lines for both car drivers and train drivers (at this type of crossing) is essential. So the height of the hedge on the train’s left and the car’s right should be maintained accordingly.
Sight line issues are often mentioned in investigations into uncontrolled crossing incidents.
Sighting is essential where there are no traffic lights. Where there are, as here, vehicles are often required to stop and wait so far back that the drivers can't see (e.g. because of buildings).
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rogerw
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2021, 15:22:03 » |
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This was a controlled crossing with flashing "zig zag" red lights, which signify an absolute stop (even for emergency vehicles). The NR» report makes it clear that the car driver had driven past the red lights. Whether there was inter-visibility between the car and the train is immaterial. the only test is whether the car driver could see the lights
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I like to travel. It lets me feel I'm getting somewhere.
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broadgage
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2021, 04:59:42 » |
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There seems to be view among some motorists that the red warning lights at level crossings are in some way "only advisory" and that ignoring them is either OK, or at least less serious than ignoring other traffic signals.
In my view there should be more prosecutions for level crossing misuse, and the penalties should be more severe.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Gordon the Blue Engine
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2021, 08:57:55 » |
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I was thinking more about minimising risk, not apportioning blame. Of course the motorist should have obeyed the red lights, but seeing the train approaching might have helped avoid the incident (and the train driver may have had the chance to hoot – again?). A building in the sight line can’t be moved, but a hedge can be cut down. It’s all a question of doing whatever can be done AFAIRP to minimise risk.
On a slightly different tack, the motorist may well have been local, but I wonder whether non-locals from urban backgrounds are more used to level crossings where it’s light first, then barriers come down, then train (and look at the second bullet point at the bottom of the NR» press release). Again, no excuse for the motorist, but an avoided incident is better than a real incident and a prosecution.
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« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 09:04:12 by Gordon the Blue Engine »
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broadgage
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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2021, 11:36:57 » |
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I disagree, in my view blame SHOULD be apportioned to the road vehicle driver, unless there is some extenuating circumstance. Even partial reliance on sight lines is in my view most unwise for two reasons. Firstly a fast train could be out of sight initially but still come dangerously close as a vehicle crosses. Secondly, a whole new can of worms is opened about sight lines and changes thereto.
IMHO▸ , it should be a simple case of "were the red lights clearly visible and in working order" ? If yes then the blame should fall entirely upon the car driver. Penalty points on the driving licence would be reasonable. If this results in a driving ban, then a new driving test should be a requirement to drive after the expiration of the ban.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Clan Line
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2021, 16:03:34 » |
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I disagree, in my view blame SHOULD be apportioned to the road vehicle driver,
I think you have to very careful saying something like that. Shall we say that, you personally, are well known for being a fan of rail transport against all others which MAY just have "flavoured" your response. The UK▸ has a superb reputation when it comes to transport accident investigations air, maritime and rail. All these reports are completely impartial - blame is never apportioned in these reports. Their reports (especially aviation) often say that the actions of the pilot "caused" the incident - but they never "blame" the pilot. That is not their job. Once blame becomes the sole object people will clam up and the real reason may never be known. Just imagine the driver of a train being questioned after some incident or other............."no comment,...... no comment,........ no comment".......is that what you really want ? It is possible that the driver's vision was obstructed by his interior sun visors, he may have had a medical incident, the sun shining at a particular angle on that particular model of car's windscreen may have distracted him...............he may have just made a "error of judgement" (like politicians always do !) . It is very easy to cast blame. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" (John 8:7)
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broadgage
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2021, 19:36:01 » |
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I did state that blame should be apportioned to the road vehicle driver "unless there was some extenuating circumstance" Sudden illness would be an extenuating circumstance, as might be unexpected* mechanical failure. Not sure about "view obstructed by sun visor" since that could be considered the drivers fault if they had so adjusted the sun visor such that observation of traffic signals was thereby obstructed.
What happens to a train driver who passes a signal at danger, without extenuating circumstances ? And how does this compare with the treatment of a car driver who jumps a red traffic signal ?
Rail is far safer than road transport, The ONLY fatal rail accident for many years was at Stonehaven. The DAILY death toll on the roads far exceeds the ANUALL toll in rail accidents.
*Mechanical failure is only in my view an extenuating circumstance if truly unforeseen, and not the result of poor maintenance.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2021, 10:48:29 » |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2024, 16:44:26 » |
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From the BBC» : Near misses and risk-taking filmed at crossings
Video of dangerous incidents at level crossings has been released as part of a summer safety campaign.
In June, a girl was filmed running across a crossing in Fishbourne, West Sussex, just a couples of metres in front of an advancing train.
Recent CCTV▸ footage also showed people hanging from rising crossing barriers in Chertsey, Surrey; rushing cyclists colliding in Hounslow, London; and a car swerving to avoid closing barriers in Bramley, Hampshire.
Network Rail, which released the video, said July was a peak time for incidents.
Sam Pead, a regional level crossing manager, said: “It’s frustrating we continue to see people recklessly risking their lives when crossing the railway. Across the Southern region, trains can travel as fast as 140mph (225km/h) and are largely powered by the third rail which carries more than enough electricity to kill or seriously injure and is always on."
Farnham in Surrey and Star Lane in Wokingham, Berkshire, were the most abused level crossings in the Wessex region last year, Network Rail said.
Addlestone and Ash in Surrey and Poole High Street in Dorset also recorded more than one incident per month.
In Chertsey, the CCTV film showed a truck tearing off a barrier in the driver's effort to escape the tracks.
Incidents involving poorly trained or uncontrolled dogs were a post-Covid trend, Network Rail said.
Clappers Lane in Ferring, West Sussex, recorded near misses involving a dog walker and a cyclist.
Another dog walker ignored a stop sign at Ashtead Common, Surrey, and a dog was also filmed waiting alone on the track at the same location.
The firm reported 28 near misses in the Wessex region in the 2023-24 financial year, which was 13% fewer than the year before.
However, incidents of level crossing misuse in the region rose by 24% to 466.
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2024, 19:35:32 » |
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The cyclists raised a wry smile, silly b*ggers.
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