Problems with IET trains from April 2021

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

See here
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22022.0

Coaching stock already on its way. Traction still be decided, but a pair of class 50s could no doubt be obtained.

[Clan Line]

So true. On Sunday I went up to London on the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) Waterloo service. The seats were lovely, soft, deep, comfortable and brought into sharp focus how truly awful are the rigid board seats that the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) have.

Hear hear !!!

Pre pandemic my wife and I came back from London to Warminster 1st Class.
2 X 5 car IET to Bath - no trolley - in the other half ?? First Class thrown open to all and sundry - was the other half of the train even open ?? Hard seats, over bright lighting, pretty average ride, colour "scheme" - ugh !!
SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Bath to Warminster in a 159 - sublime comfort ............. and this was a 30 year old train !!!

Just to add insult to injury, the fares on GWR to London from Warminster are double that on SWT.

[PhilWakely]

See here
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22022.0

Coaching stock already on its way. Traction still be decided, but a pair of class 50s could no doubt be obtained.

Would be wonderful to see the combination back in revenue earning service in the West, but I suspect traction knowledge might be a problem. I presume GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) own 57s will be used ?  I guess a minimum of three or four locos would be needed for the two rakes of MkIIs.

[IndustryInsider]

Coaching stock already on its way. Traction still be decided, but a pair of class 50s could no doubt be obtained.

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) the last thing you want is to attract enthusiasts when you’re trying to create emergency capacity.  Class 50s will have them travelling far and wide to use services that will be desperately needed for regular passengers.  Mind you, even a Class 57, 68 or 70 will attract some enthusiasts.

Would be wonderful to see the combination back in revenue earning service in the West, but I suspect traction knowledge might be a problem. I presume GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) own 57s will be used ?  I guess a minimum of three or four locos would be needed for the two rakes of MkIIs.

It’s possible that GWR crewed Class 57s will be used, but more likely a class of engine with drivers supplied from the hiring company, or a third party I would have thought.

[bobm]

Before someone else suggests it...

[PhilWakely]

A quick trip to the near future in the Tardis took me to Rewe, just north of Exeter on Wednesday, 19th May 2021 - just in time to phot the hired in stock for the 16:15 Penzance to Paddington passing......

[Lee]

That disruption map BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) logo is definitely taking a fuller shape now...

[sikejsudjek3]

If they stick anything remotely interesting to enthusiasts on the front, half the train will be full before the public get anywhere near it ! That was certainly true of some of the summer Saturday jaunts to Weymouth from Bristol !

[TaplowGreen]

That seems a fair assessment from someone "in the know", and the sooner that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are honest/realistic about it in order that people can make other plans, the better.

If it's "months" given that we're already halfway through May, it'll be a pretty ropey summer for the railways at best.

Let's hope the roads hold up.

Personally I don’t think you tell passengers it’ll be months then, after a through inspection, it’s deemed a large number of sets are safe and quickly returned to traffic. Passengers might ask questions as to how safe the trains are, won’t inspire confidence.

As a customer I can't say I agree with that - it's always better to under promise and over deliver -  GWR's website is still encouraging ticket purchases and the information on disruption says;

"We have had to cancel many of our long-distance services and expect disruption to journeys to continue for the next few days".

How long will the "thorough inspections" of the fleet take? Never mind the repairs themselves!

"Next few days" seems ridiculously optimistic and encourages customers to think that everything will be fine in a week or two. If they go ahead and purchase expensive long distance tickets on that basis only for the current fiasco to continue and ruin their plans, that will inspire a lot less confidence than a more cautious, but realistic estimate of a return to something like normality.

[broadgage]

I agree that disruption is likely for months and possibly for years.
The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website and other sources certainly IMPLY that it will be back to normal in a few days at the most.

Many reports in the media refer to the need for inspections before returning the trains to service. Have ANY GWR trains returned to service after inspections ?
Saturday=10 units available
Sunday=5 units available
Monday=3 units available
Tuesday=2 units available.
Today
No reports refer to the need for major repairs.

My estimate for repairs, based upon common sense not upon detailed engineering study is as follows.
For the FIRST repair, including studies, paperwork, and refining the technique, a few months.
For the second repair, one month.
Thereafter as experience is gained, one set a week.

That comes to a couple of years. And is optimistically assuming that no other defects are found during the repairs.
It also optimistically assumes that after the repairs that the units will return to service reliably.
I expect a PERMANENT reduction in availability due to the need for extra inspections for the life of the trains.
If about 80 trains each require an extra one hour a day for inspections, that is the loss of about 80 train hours a day. Perhaps half of this could be covered by trains not needed during the off peak, but the other 40 train hours a day might need another 4 trains each working for 10 hours a day.

[grahame]

If they stick anything remotely interesting to enthusiasts on the front, half the train will be full before the public get anywhere near it ! That was certainly true of some of the summer Saturday jaunts to Weymouth from Bristol !

Indeed ... but consider ...

There's both a pressure to provide a service to get people who "have to travel" around and a pressure to get people back onto trains post-Covid.   What better way to address that latter pressure than have the advocates for rail show and market that advocacy to show the more general public that there ARE trains around and they ARE safe?   Reports of here yesterday of just 30 people transferring from a Bristol - Swindon shuttle onto a long electric unit to London would suggest that even with current social distancing, there may be room for everyone.

I grant you that the Rail Motor running Newquay during the August surfing extravaganza would lead to some congestion - sense and sensibility needed.

[a-driver]

No IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) to start the service with this morning. Unrelated problem discovered overnight. Both remaining IETs had visible signs of impact damage which is being investigated. Both units will however be back in traffic during the course of the day.

All parties involved had a meeting/conference call yesterday with a view to returning anything upto 60 sets following risk assessments. This has to be approved by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and a decision is expected this afternoon. Depending on the outcome of that, a more accurate timescale can be published.

As for repairs. They estimate each unit with take 3 to 4 days to repair once enough staff have been recruited.  To repair every single affected IET for all TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) will take until the end of 2022.

[grahame]

All parties involved had a meeting/conference call yesterday with a view to returning anything upto 60 sets following risk assessments. This has to be approved by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and a decision is expected this afternoon. Depending on the outcome of that, a more accurate timescale can be published.

Makes sense. Please keep us informed.

Questions in my mind (too early to ask them?) include ...
* Is that 60 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) sets or 60 sets across all TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)?
* Would there be operating limits - e.g. top speed 90 m.p.h?
* Extra inspections / etc - would the 60 be available for the normal proportion of the time?  Would they get worse and some have to be withdrawn?

As for repairs. They estimate each unit with take 3 to 4 days to repair once enough staff have been recruited.  To repair every single affected IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) for all TOCs will take until the end of 2022.

Is that a single production line of repairs, or could they be done in parallel?

[a-driver]

Makes sense. Please keep us informed.

Questions in my mind (too early to ask them?) include ...
* Is that 60 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) sets or 60 sets across all TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)?
* Would there be operating limits - e.g. top speed 90 m.p.h?
* Extra inspections / etc - would the 60 be available for the normal proportion of the time?  Would they get worse and some have to be withdrawn?

60 GWR sets with smaller cracks.

Possible operating limits. I understand that’s been discussed and intensive monitoring

[broadgage]

If they stick anything remotely interesting to enthusiasts on the front, half the train will be full before the public get anywhere near it ! That was certainly true of some of the summer Saturday jaunts to Weymouth from Bristol !

This should be manageable by the following

1) Do not advertise what traction will be provided. Some enthusiasts will find out and travel for the fun of it, but numbers will be limited. On the second day, numbers will be a bit limited by those who DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) find out and DID travel on the previous day, but don't want to do it twice.

2) Use enough coaches to provide ample capacity for both normal passengers AND for a few hundred enthusiasts.

3) Any rare or interesting traction could be best used on long distance NON STOP services, for example fast from Paddington to Plymouth. The cost of a ticket would limit enthusiast numbers. Also consider use on a late evening service, with no return possible by train the same day.