Problems with IET trains from April 2021

[whole diary]

[BBM]

Richard Clinnick from RAIL has tweeted that three 387/3s from c2c are on their way to Reading, where they will require a software modification before going into traffic with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway):
https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1392075893783158784

He also says that GWR is still looking for additional rolling stock, with all manners of options being considered.

[caliwag]

Surprised there's not talk of hi-jacking the blue 125 set

[PhilWakely]

Surprised there's not talk of hi-jacking the blue 125 set

Unlikely, as it has already been hijacked to operate the S&C^▸ (Settle and Carlisle ) Staycation Express whilst the High Speed Train (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) stock bought for the purpose is refurbished at Eastleigh.

It is more likely that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will look to West Coast Railways for their Mark I stock and Class 47s and maybe Locomotive Services Limited for their blood and custard Mark IIs and Class 47s.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[BBM]

Just to add to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s woes today, according to the National Rail site there's currently a major signalling system fault between Acton Main Line and Ealing Broadway. It says that trains will be delayed by up to 30 minutes until 15:00, but looking at RealTimeTrains nothing has departed or arrived at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) since 12:45.

[grahame]

Remaining EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) withdrawn this weekend.  Might we see them in the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) area from next week?

Hopefully, but with what are EMR replacing them ?

Class 170 and 360 ... with previously diesel trains London - Corby running using 21 electric units.   There are plans for 810s (800 variants) but not yet.   They ARE getting there - down to just 2 sets this week, however they would need DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) derogation as they are drop window, slam door and I suspect dump-on-track trains.

From https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/help-manage/about-us/media-release/emr-connect-all-electric-train-service-launches-next-week

EMR’s first all-electric trains - reduces carbon emissions by 77% and lowers noise levels for lineside neighbours

EMR Connect will run twice hourly between Corby and London St Pancras

Staff excited to begin serving passengers

East Midlands Railway's (EMR) new all electric train service running twice hourly between Corby and London St Pancras launches this week.

EMR Connect, which uses a fleet of 360 trains, is the company’s first electric route - delivering a reduction of carbon emissions by 77%, as well as lowering noise levels for lineside neighbours.

Over the last six months, 87 mainline drivers and 107 train managers across four traincrew depots, have been trained to work on the 360s - with more staff to come.

[broadgage]

One of the more polite jokes circulating about the wretched units is a small group of orange clad engineers pointing at a presumably cracked IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) and saying "SEE IT, SAY IT, SCRAP IT"

[stuving]

In any event of this kind there's a temptation to play hunt-the-hubris, even if it's a bit too easy - verging on depth-charging whales in a teacup in some cases (have you seen that EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about) video from last month about their 810s being built?). This is from the article I cited yesterday that was written by a Hitachi executive, now reeking of essence of hubris*, but quoted to make a more serious point.

Hitachi’s renowned build quality and engineering will ensure a smooth ride for passengers on long journeys, truly befitting of the 21st century.

That is what is at stake for Hitachi. Reputation matters to them: without it they don't really have a global business. And as a Japanese company, there's all the the cultural background of a society in which any loss of face is a unacceptable. And as embarrassments go, this is a biggie.

So, ask yourselves: how will Hitachi react? With a shrug the shoulders, and saying "it'll be very bad for business but we'll just have to live with it"? Or will the relevant boss look at his younger colleagues and say "this will be no.1 priority (and 2, 3, and 4 as well) for the rest of my working life  - and of yours too"?

* You can buy it bottled as Hubrisco.

[broadgage]

I expect that the name Hitachi will be seen a lot less, at least in Europe.
A rebranding, or the setting up of a subsidiary with an unrelated name seems likely.

Possibly something that sounds a bit British and not Japanese.
"West country rail engineering" or perhaps "Trent valley train builders" or some such that sounds British and has a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) registered business address, but in fact primarily imports japanese trains.
No connection with that Hitachi lot who made all those faulty trains, though we do source "some components from overseas"

Even before this fiasco, the perceived poor quality of the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train)  was resulting in negative views about other unrelated Hitachi products. I recall a local political figure stating that "If Hitachi cant build a decent train, then I wont want one of their nuclear reactors" They had suffered from 5 car units replacing full length HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with standing between Taunton and London.

[Kernowman]

Agree, that is why obtaining extra stock, even if not compliant with every rule, is in my view urgent.
If Tornado is allowed to the West country on a charter, then why not daily ?
If a heritage diesel is allowed on a charter, then why not daily ?
Could not preserved DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) be used on West country branches ?

Time to start planning NOW rather than wait until the last minute and then "it might have been a possibility, but there was not time for all the paperwork/training/derogations/appeasing the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)."

I have to say that I agree, although the situation is a very unfortunate one, and the issues surrounding the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) have been widely discussed on here and I'm sure will continue to be so, this situation is also an opportunity for the railway to show how well it can respond in a crisis and hopefully look back with a sense of pride in the future at how well it did so. Far better to look back and say 'Yes things went wrong but didn't we respond well'  than a 'Well things go wrong, don't travel by train' attitude. Moving stock around and obtaining extra stock from wherever necessary should be a priority as should providing staff for assistance at stations and on social media. Most passengers would rather get a train, however unusual and/or older the rolling stock than wait on a platform for five hours for something usual and/or new to turn up that's absolutely rammed and/or quite possibly less comfortable as well

[stuving]

Trying to think of plans to deal with this, on varying scales of time and resources, I came up with the following, based on the reports that the risk posed by the jacking points is of chunk dropping off while running:

A VVSTP: With enough cracks measured, pick the ones that really can't actually break in a couple of days and start running those under daily inspection if need be. This uses a lot of inspection resource, but not much else.

B VSTP: Restrain the bit that might drop off. How possible that is will depend on how big it is (i.e. where the cracks are under the body). But if it comes down to drilling and tapping a few holes, and bolting on a steel strap, that might be quick enough to buy time for the next plans. I can't see that this (or plan A) will allow jacking with no risk this bit fails - and results in a damaged bodyshell. Such a strap is likely to be visible to the public from a platform, which might or might not be a good thing.

C STP: Weld the cracks up. I've no idea how tricky welding a thick lump of this alloy is (I never did get on with metallurgy and materials as a subject), but I expect "very". This ought to permit jacking as usual, but I doubt it would meet the fatigue life requirement. In fact I don't suppose that aspect would even be considered.

D LTP^▸ (Local Transport Plan): For the trains to run for their full lifetime (the only way Hitachi can ever get any income from them) the whole issue of what went wrong has to be understood. If it is feasible to take these bolsters off and weld on new ones, that puts a ceiling on the repair cost. If new bodyshells are needed, obviously that's a higher ceiling.

I'm not suggesting all of those plans are needed, as some might not help enough to be worthwhile. But if there is a way to get a significant fleet back into service by the end of the week, and keep it there, I suspect the response will have to be phased in some way. As to the details, those are just my guesses, based on several concentric layers of ignorance - so apologies to anyone who doesn't approve of that kind of speculation.

[broadgage]

I agree, (with Kernowman)  that this could be an opportunity for "the railway" to show how well it can do in an emergency, by obtaining substitute rolling stock even if this would be non compliant under normal conditions.

I remain unconvinced that all the latest features are needed for relatively low speed operation on a branch line, that does in practical terms rather resembles a heritage line.

The only "fly in the ointment" is passenger comfort. IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) supporters both in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and informed persons on these fora have gone to a great deal of trouble to persuade us that IETs are lovely trains, ideal for GWR routes, and that only a few old farts consider them to be a backward step.
Use of old stock, whether HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) or other even older trains will involve a certain amount of loss of face. If significant numbers of passengers actually prefer the old trains and say so in the media or on trip advisor and the like, then very considerable loss of face will result.

[Electric train]

I expect that the name Hitachi will be seen a lot less, at least in Europe.
A rebranding, or the setting up of a subsidiary with an unrelated name seems likely.

Possibly something that sounds a bit British and not Japanese.
"West country rail engineering" or perhaps "Trent valley train builders" or some such that sounds British and has a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) registered business address, but in fact primarily imports japanese trains.
No connection with that Hitachi lot who made all those faulty trains, though we do source "some components from overseas"

Hitachi will weather the storm, in there defence no one has been injured or worse still killed due to a structural failure on the trains

[/quote]

Even before this fiasco, the perceived poor quality of the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train)  was resulting in negative views about other unrelated Hitachi products. I recall a local political figure stating that "If Hitachi cant build a decent train, then I wont want one of their nuclear reactors" They had suffered from 5 car units replacing full length HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with standing between Taunton and London.

The UK Government set the specification, conducted the tender process and awarded the contract based on ? more than likely cost

All of the modern rail vehicles are very much the same, the was board seats and the seating layout are not Hitachi but are to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) spec

[Jamsdad]

"The only "fly in the ointment" is passenger comfort. IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)▸ supporters both in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and informed persons on these fora have gone to a great deal of trouble to persuade us that IETs are lovely trains, ideal for GWR routes, and that only a few old farts consider them to be a backward step.
Use of old stock, whether HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) or other even older trains will involve a certain amount of loss of face. If significant numbers of passengers actually prefer the old trains and say so in the media or on trip advisor and the like, then very considerable loss of face will result."[/i]

So true. On Sunday I went up to London on the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) Waterloo service. The seats were lovely, soft, deep, comfortable and brought into sharp focus how truly awful are the rigid board seats that the GWR IETs have.

[BBM]

https://twitter.com/SuttonOak8g/status/1392174219618816010

EXCLUSIVE: Riviera Trains have had a request to mobilise 2 sets of their MK2F coaching stock to assist GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). Nemesis Rail at Burton have readied 1 set with the 2nd set due to be ready by Friday. Traction options are currently being discussed.

[broadgage]

https://twitter.com/SuttonOak8g/status/1392174219618816010

EXCLUSIVE: Riviera Trains have had a request to mobilise 2 sets of their MK2F coaching stock to assist GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway). Nemesis Rail at Burton have readied 1 set with the 2nd set due to be ready by Friday. Traction options are currently being discussed.

Splendid, two sets wont help that much, but still a lot better than nothing.
What about the two GB^▸ (Great Britain) Railfreight (GBRF) liveried class 50 locomotives for hauling one train. It is rumoured that Mr. Hopwood has a fondness for these. Double heading would be prudent to avoid embarrassing failures.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym