Helping me learn - technical bus stuff

[whole diary]

[grahame]

1. What is the comparative running cost (let's look at modern equivalent age vehicles) in miles per gallon (or kms per litre) between a minibus, a standard sized bus, and a double decker?

2. Is there any data on the effect on run times of using fewer bigger vehicles.  If a minibus leaving every 15 minutes and picking up / dropping off along the way takes an hour to get to destination, how long would a standard bus take, allowing longer for boarding and leaving the bus, and how long would an hourly double decker take?  For simplicity of calculation (ha, ha) let's assume the same number of people travelling over the hours, whether they're split between 4, 2 or on 1 vehicle;

3. I personally feel that the ride is smoother (and I say smoother not smooth for some of my local roads) in a larger vehicle - but is that anecdotal or is there data to back it up?  Again, personally, I  prefer the smoother ride.

[bradshaw]

Might the smoother ride come from having air bag secondary suspension, rather like the High Speed Train (HST^▸ (High Speed Train))? The air bags providing the cushioning and allowing the suspension to be lowered at stops to make it easier to board.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[Lee]

As you know, grahame, in my role as researcher and draft timetabler for Option 24/7, I am currently particularly focused on matters relating to 2)

When it comes to town bus services in Wiltshire - which I suspect you particularly have in mind here - it is often a more complex comparison than how your question is framed. For example, with the town minibus services that Wiltshire Council subsidise in Melksham and other towns in the TransWilts hinterland, the Council insist on a certain amount of leeway in the running times that can make them seem slower when compared to (say) the commercial conventional bus 271 route - which Faresaver set their own timings for - over common sections of route.

One of my aims in negotiations with the Council will be to see if there is scope for a reduction in this leeway regarding new rail link feeder bus service timings where they dont have to access "minibus only" areas such as the Methuen and Sherwood estates en route. I have been working on a batch of such timetables, and a closer match of timings would be beneficial for when they combine with commercial conventional bus services - as they will be far more integrated together in future under the new DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) Bus Strategy - on common sections of route.

On 1) it is obviously important to pay particular attention to how the whole "miles per gallon" rationale will change given the DfT Bus Strategy's heavy focus on Decarbonisation and clear move towards Zero Emission bus services, and consequent phasing out of Diesel in favour of technologies such as Electric and Hydrogen.

[LiskeardRich]

1)
A Mercedes sprinter based minibus can expect around 20mpg and seats 16-20
Optare solo SR^‡(resolve) 9.9m around 12-15mpg seats 36
Volvo B7TL Gemini double decker around 6mpg seats 78
Volvo B7R profile wheelchair coach around 8mpg seats 45-53 depending on configuration with wheelchair space.

[grahame]

So I make that:

33 mpg	20 mpg	12-15 mpg	8 mpg	6 mpg
5 seats	16-20 seats	36 seats	45-53 seats	78 seats
165 mspg	350 mspg	486 mspg	392 mspg	468 mspg

Edit - changing some picture to more local buses and "mpsg" to "mspg"

[CyclingSid]

Not so much in rural services, but some people would also argue that the road space taken is important.

The double decker is a more efficient use of road space than a taxi. Others would also use the comparison of how many bikes would fit in the same road space, e.g. four bikes in the space of the taxi that normally only has two people in it.

[paul7575]

  I’m wondering if miles per gallon x seats should be written as mile x seats per gallon, ie mspg?

Paul

[grahame]

I’m wondering if miles per gallon x seats should be written as mile x seats per gallon, ie mspg?

Paul

It probably should - I'll go back and change mpsg to mspg.

[grahame]

Many thanks for the inputs ... completed article at http://grahamellis.uk/blog117.html

"Why is a double decker running around my town / village with very few people on it? Isn't that wasteful? Wouldn't it be better to use minibuses or taxis?" Good questions - asked of me in multiple community areas, including my 'home' area of Melksham.

[long snip]

Conclusion

For the most part, the bus operators are being efficient, and the routine appearance of lightly loaded double decker buses on your street is worthy of asking about, but you can be re-assured it's not far off the best arrangement possible at the moment.

[LiskeardRich]

A typical double decker is 10m- 10.5m in length compared to a standard single decker is 12m-12.5m.

If one journey on the buses running card for a day requires peak capacity of a double decker, it is then most cost effective to have a double decker running that running card all day.

A double decker bus May only have 5 passengers on at 12 noon,  but that bus working may have covered the 8am that has 60 passengers.
If it’s a 2 hour round trip it car often be expected to see the same vehicle every 2 hours, it isn’t viable to have a spare fleet of single deckers to swap for a double between peaks.

[eightf48544]

Presumably it's as imialr argument to Thameslink running round with 8 and 12 car units all day rather than having fleets of 4 and 6 cars and splitting off peak and stabling the spare units.