Campaign to open a north - south rail link within Wales

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From Nation Cymru

Campaign to reopen north-south Carmarthen to Bangor rail link launches fundraising drive

A campaign to re-open a railway between Carmarthen and Bangor and in doing so reestablish a north-south rail link in Wales has launched a fundraising drive.

Traws Link Cymru was formed in 2013 with aim of reinstating the railway lines between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen, and Afon Wen and Bangor, both of which were closed to passengers under the 1960s Beeching Cuts.

Since then travelling between Carmarthen and Bangor has required a six-hour journey out of Wales and through Hereford, Shrewsbury and Crewe.

How many journeys are made each year from Carmarthen to Bangor, and what is the potential?  But to be fair, there is additional regional journeys that may make the case for each of Bangor to Afon Wen, and from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen.

For though traffic within Wales, I offer you three other options:
1. Builth Road to Moat Lane Junction plus Afon Wen to Bangor
2. Merthyr Tydvil to Moat Lane Junction plus Afon Wen to Bangor
3. Redraw the national boundary to move Hereford and Shrewsbury into Wales

Edit: past reports and data on same proposals

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2018-10/aberystwyth-to-carmarthen-rail-reinstatement-feasibility-study-executive-summary.pdf

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2018-10/aberystwyth-to-carmarthen-rail-reinstatement-feasibility-study.pdf

https://cdn.nation.cymru/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/23161247/TLC-Strategic-Case.-09.09.20.pdf

[CyclingSid]

I think we have been round this one before.

Would support Builth Road to Moat Lane Junction, but in my case that would be historical bias due to connections with the area.

Redraw the national boundary to move Hereford and Shrewsbury into Wales, solution to a problem on another thread move Pilning into Scotland.

[Rhydgaled]

I think we have been round this one before.

I think we probably have; but here's my view (again?).

(Re)building a new railway is an expensive process, both financially and (probably) in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. That capital cost is only justified if the benefits (particularly in terms of greenhouse gas reduction) are significant. In order to acheive a sufficient greenhouse gas reduction such a railway would need to attract significant modal shift from private cars. My gut feeling is that this is not acheivable unless said railway offers a journey time faster than Google maps etc. suggest it would take somebody to complete the journey by car.

The original routes from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, Merthyr Tydfil to Builth Road, Builth Road to Moat Lane Junction and Afon Wen to Bangor were all indirect compared to the current roads between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth, Merthyr Tydfil and Newtown and Porthmadog and Bangor. While I think there is merit in looking at linking these places directly by rail, I do not support reopening of the original routes which I suspect would not offer sufficiently speedy rail journey times (in the case of Carmarthen - Aberystwyth, the study that has been done confirms this and the solution - building a new tunnel which would also bypass the Gwili railway - was dismissed as too costly).

Of all the options, I think the section most likely to be a success would be Bangor - Caernarfon. The old route from Caernarfon towards Afon Wen might also be suitable as far south as Bryncir but beyond there I think the line needs to head directly towards Porthmadog (which would be a brand new alignment) rather than Afon Wen which is only direct enough if your traffic objective is Pwllheli and not a north-south link to mid Wales (Machynlleth and Newtown).

For though traffic within Wales, I offer you three other options:
1. Builth Road to Moat Lane Junction plus Afon Wen to Bangor
2. Merthyr Tydvil to Moat Lane Junction plus Afon Wen to Bangor
3. Redraw the national boundary to move Hereford and Shrewsbury into Wales

On that last one, you forgot that Chester would also need to be moved into Wales (and Crewe if you want to avoid a reversal).

[Lee]

Of course, you could spend your 6 hours between Carmarthen and Bangor on the T1/T2 bus combo entirely within Wales the whole way 

The fact is though, aside from having WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) sponsor it, nothing says curtains for a rail proposal more than it failing The Rhydgaled Test.

[ellendune]

On that last one, you forgot that Chester would also need to be moved into Wales (and Crewe if you want to avoid a reversal).

Not necessarily.

Saltney Jn is only 200m inside England

If you did a south to west chord you only need to move a few villages. 

[grahame]

Mighty modern tunnelling techniques - and you could build "Rheilffyrdd Cyflym Uchel yng Nghymru'



Main line in red - Cardiff - Merthyr - Brecon - Builth - Llandrindod - Rhayder - Macynellth - Dolgellau - Porthmadog - Carnaervon - Bangor.

Cardiff to Bangor - 140 miles.  With 9 intermediate stops, 3 hours end to end - that's an hour faster than via England

Less heavily engineered ... both sharing some existing line sections and old railway routes:
South feeder in blue - Carmarthen - Llandeilo - Llandovery - Llanwrtyd - Builth
North feeder in blue - Dolgellau - Llanuwchlyn - Bala - Corwen - Llangollen - Ruabon - Wrexham

[Lee]

Mighty modern tunnelling techniques - and you could build "Rheilffyrdd Cyflym Uchel yng Nghymru'

I have to ask in time-honoured forum tradition...Pwy sy'n mynd i dalu amdano? 

[grahame]

Mighty modern tunnelling techniques - and you could build "Rheilffyrdd Cyflym Uchel yng Nghymru'

I have to ask in time-honoured forum tradition...Pwy sy'n mynd i dalu amdano? 

Under the Barnett formula, the taxpayers of Torbay, the working people of Wokingham, and the breadwinners of Bristol.

[TaplowGreen]

Mighty modern tunnelling techniques - and you could build "Rheilffyrdd Cyflym Uchel yng Nghymru'

I have to ask in time-honoured forum tradition...Pwy sy'n mynd i dalu amdano? 

Under the Barnett formula, the taxpayers of Torbay, the working people of Wokingham, and the breadwinners of Bristol.

Blimey Graham, I can see you've gone into Politics!!! 

[ellendune]

On that last one, you forgot that Chester would also need to be moved into Wales (and Crewe if you want to avoid a reversal).

Not necessarily.

Saltney Jn is only 200m inside England

If you did a south to west chord you only need to move a few villages. 

Or divert the route at Brymbo south junction through Buckley and construct a south to west curve at Shotton