Latest new bus improvement plans.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

And another view of the subject from the CPRE^▸ (Campaign to Protect Rural England) (Council for the Preservation of Rural England):
https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/our-report-shows-a-bus-every-village-every-hour-is-possible/

A Swiss-style service for five-times the money.

But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

[TonyK]

Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.

[Lee]

Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.

As I said earlier in the topic, there are aspects of some models that we may seek to emulate, others perhaps not so much...

[rogerw]

Following on from the CPRE^▸ (Campaign to Protect Rural England) report I wonder how many bus services would equate to the cost of the Stonehenge proposals

[grahame]

Following on from the CPRE^▸ (Campaign to Protect Rural England) report I wonder how many bus services would equate to the cost of the Stonehenge proposals

Around 30 to 45 extra buses (very rough calculation) per English constituency for a year.   You are in danger of comparing capital cost with ongoing revenue cost, though.

[TonyK]

Not in the article but worth noting, particularly in the context of this forum, is that buses will need to serve railway stations, bus stops will need to be as close to the station entrance as possible, and proposals and schemes that move bus services away from railway stations will no longer be allowed.

So not like Bristol MetroBust, then.

As I said earlier in the topic, there are aspects of some models that we may seek to emulate, others perhaps not so much...

The emphasis should therefore be on easing the flow of buses into and out of a transport hub adjacent to major railway stations. MetroBust sacrificed this to keep the bus moving more freely along Temple Way in Bristol.

[Lee]

I am going to leave aside the CPRE^▸ (Campaign to Protect Rural England) proposals for the moment, which are certainly ambitious, and by their own admission are based on redirecting a funding stream that the government are going to take a lot of persuading to release.

What I will say is that in our original Option 24/7 proposals, we combined 18 existing rural bus services, some of them with very sparse frequencies, into 8 attractive regular pattern "Explorer" routes with matching Community Rail-style promotion. We estimated that the cost of providing these services would be around £860k per annum - from within the existing council subsidy budget - and this tallied with Wiltshire Council's own figures during our negotiations with them, so we know that our plans and figures were credible.

[Surrey 455]

But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?

[grahame]

But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?

If the extra passengers are in proportion, a five fold increase will be a five fold increase in income, as both normal fares and pathetic ENCTS^▸ (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) ones will increase in like.  But at a guess, there is already higher market penetration by seniors than by others, so concessionary fares will increase less than others and you'll do better.   In other words, pensioners already use the bus - it's attractive for them in price anyway, and they have plenty of time.

[TonyK]

But yet ... if you increase the passenger numbers five-fold too, your income is also five times.    Simplistic comment but I note that a three times increase in bus passengers is planned in the BaNES consultation as an example - that's from pre-Covid levels, so this may be more practical than you think.   I note that a four fold increase in trains calling at my local station brought a 25 fold increase in journeys.

But what if those extra passengers are using council bus passes? Is there still a five-fold increase in income?

If the extra passengers are in proportion, a five fold increase will be a five fold increase in income, as both normal fares and pathetic ENCTS^▸ (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) ones will increase in like.  But at a guess, there is already higher market penetration by seniors than by others, so concessionary fares will increase less than others and you'll do better.   In other words, pensioners already use the bus - it's attractive for them in price anyway, and they have plenty of time.

I thought part of the problem bus operators were facing was the reduction in the amounts paid for concessionary passengers. As there are seldom any paying passengers on buses from the village I have just left, I can't see there being much of an increase in income.

[grahame]

I thought part of the problem bus operators were facing was the reduction in the amounts paid for concessionary passengers. As there are seldom any paying passengers on buses from the village I have just left, I can't see there being much of an increase in income.

Reduction of payment for concessionary passengers - councils squeezing to get it as low as they can - has been a a problem. But that's not what I was talking about / commenting on.

Let's say than buses from Greenstocks to Bissbridge carry 100 passengers a day at present - 90 on concessionary passes (£1)  and 10 at full fare (£5). So that's an income of £140 pounds.

It's my contention that the concessionary pass people already use the bus - that market is pretty well covered and saturated - and a much better service won't add much to those numbers - rather, it will add to the numbers who do have an element of choice.  Let's say that doubling the service as part of a tuning to fit the younger (none-retired) market brings in just 10 more ENCTS^▸ (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) holders, plus a further 40 at full fare as that is a market ripe for transfer to bus.   Passenger numbers up 50%, vehicle runs up 100% (so quieter buses) but income up from £140 to £350 - that's a 150% increase.