World Cup of Train Operators

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Why should we want to turn the tide ?

Because they're our local team and have become friends.
Because they've done a ****** site more for us than other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have or would have done.
Because we want to continue to partner with the team there long into the future.
Because they listen to and consider us a darned site more that many other transport operators.
Because they have shown an interest by soliciting our votes.

Please vote for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) at https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1360150998375927811 - poll closes at breakfast time this morning (13th February 2021)

[REVUpminster]

I thought I might try the Northern Irish way of voting. Vote early, vote often. Doesn't work.

[grahame]

I thought I might try ...

No, I'm not even repeating that idea, which I'm sure was posted with an element of humour.  Whether 'we' win or loose, we should keep it clean.  With exploration, I suspect it might be possible to unduly influence the the votes and indeed I would know where to explore.  Not doing it!   Now there was a surge in LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) votes early yesterday evening - whether that was due to someone mucking around, appearance of the World Cup on local evening news somewhere up north, or people headed home "up North" and looking for somewhere to go because the pubs are shut ... I know not. And I suspect that it it was 'naughty' and significant, the referees will have droppings they can follow.

[Timmer]

Was surprised Caledonian Sleeper beat Avanti West Coast after the wretched couple of years they’ve had. Had it still been Virgin Trains would the result been different? I know this is JFF.

[TaplowGreen]

......there's people on the tracks! They think it's all over!..............it is now! 

[grahame]

......there's people on the tracks! They think it's all over!..............it is now! 

Congratulations to LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) and a big "thank you" (not that it's my thanks to give, except in reflection) to everyone who voted - especially for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

8374 - LNER (50.26%)
8286 - GWR (49.74%)

Majority just 88, out of 16660 votes cast

London to Inverness is 570 miles - 15 votes per mile for LNER
London to Penzance is 285 miles - 29 votes per mile for GWR
Heads held very high, then.
Need to be carefuly of this methodology - may be embarrassing if we look back at previous rounds!

Here's a composite summary of our promotion from MRUG^» (Melksham Rail User Group - site) on social media (best Facebook and Twitter posts shown), together with the summary graph.

[TaplowGreen]

Nevertheless, with all those recently acquired and expensive resources, and salaries almost as high as expectations the Manager will have some difficult questions to answer having only managed 1 victory in the campaign, and that against distinctly "non league" opposition in London Overground.

Bit too much complacency perhaps.

............do we hear the Board giving him the dreaded vote of confidence? 

[Lee]

Nevertheless, with all those recently acquired and expensive resources, and salaries almost as high as expectations the Manager will have some difficult questions to answer having only managed 1 victory in the campaign, and that against distinctly "non league" opposition in London Overground.

Bit too much complacency perhaps.

............do we hear the Board giving him the dreaded vote of confidence? 

Ah, but have the Chairman and Board of Directors so tightly specified a course of action during a crisis, that it forced the manager to postpone some their key warm-up fixtures, and kept some of their key players stuck in the sidings on the sidelines?...

[TaplowGreen]

Nevertheless, with all those recently acquired and expensive resources, and salaries almost as high as expectations the Manager will have some difficult questions to answer having only managed 1 victory in the campaign, and that against distinctly "non league" opposition in London Overground.

Bit too much complacency perhaps.

............do we hear the Board giving him the dreaded vote of confidence? 

Ah, but have the Chairman and Board of Directors so tightly specified a course of action during a crisis, that it forced the manager to postpone some their key warm-up fixtures, and kept some of their key players stuck in the sidings on the sidelines?...

Excessive reliance on the tactic of parking the (rail replacement) bus was always going to cost them in the end........and apparently the players couldn't even get a half time cup of team and an orange as the trolley was stuck in the other changing room.

[broadgage]

I might have voted for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) if firstly they had been serious about trolley provision on the new units.
Reliably provided on both portions of every train.
Two trolleys on a 9 car train.
Well stocked.
Passing each seat within 30 minutes of departure, and at 30 minute intervals thereafter.

I would still consider a 29 minute wait to be a backward step if compared to a buffet. But GWR did not even try to provide a decent trolley service.
I would still consider the limited range of trolley goods to be a backward step if compared to a buffet, but GWR did not even try. (remember the promise of great improvements like hot food, a brief trial had the expected result that this was not viable)

The other reason for not voting GWR was the absence of any promise that the excellent Pullman service would return to pre pandemic levels. A statement on this forum was very carefully worded to sound vaguely positive but without actually saying "it will return to pre pandemic levels"

The hard seats and general discomfort is called progress and affects LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) similarly.

[Lee]

I might have voted for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) if firstly they had been serious about trolley provision on the new units.
Reliably provided on both portions of every train.
Two trolleys on a 9 car train.
Well stocked.
Passing each seat within 30 minutes of departure, and at 30 minute intervals thereafter.

I would still consider a 29 minute wait to be a backward step if compared to a buffet. But GWR did not even try to provide a decent trolley service.
I would still consider the limited range of trolley goods to be a backward step if compared to a buffet, but GWR did not even try. (remember the promise of great improvements like hot food, a brief trial had the expected result that this was not viable)

The other reason for not voting GWR was the absence of any promise that the excellent Pullman service would return to pre pandemic levels. A statement on this forum was very carefully worded to sound vaguely positive but without actually saying "it will return to pre pandemic levels"

The hard seats and general discomfort is called progress and affects LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) similarly.

"Harsh words there, Brian. Jumpers for goalposts, Turbos for Sprinters, Trolleys for Silver Service. Now over to Motty grahame for some stats..."

[JayMac]

8374 - LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) (50.26%)
8286 - GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (49.74%)

Majority just 88, out of 16660 votes cast

London to Inverness is 570 miles - 15 votes per mile for LNER
London to Penzance is 285 miles - 29 votes per mile for GWR

Interesting choice of stat to fit a narrative. Why not the total route mileage of all lines served, or total stations served, or annual passenger numbers? All those would show a 'vote per...' greatly in favour of LNER.

For me, there are some things GWR do well - Pullman, Welsh and west based staff, stakeholder engagement, station upkeep - but they are badly let down by poor management in other areas. Rolling stock, broader customer service, non-Pullman catering, Paddington staff, cost cutting, toadying to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), fares tinkering, rostering & driver/TM^‡(resolve) availability (particularly when the sun comes out!), first class service, disruption recovery.

GWR is still a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that's too big and too geographically diverse. That to me is why its negatives outweigh its positives. If we are to keep the franchise system then it should return to its constituent parts.

LNER are just better all round. Even if you just compare Inter-City services. That's why they got my vote.

I'm not blindly loyal to my local team. Unless it's Somerset County Cricket Club!

[grahame]

8374 - LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) (50.26%)
8286 - GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (49.74%)

Majority just 88, out of 16660 votes cast

London to Inverness is 570 miles - 15 votes per mile for LNER
London to Penzance is 285 miles - 29 votes per mile for GWR

Interesting choice of stat to fit a narrative. Why not the total route mileage of all lines served, or total stations served, or annual passenger numbers? All those would show a 'vote per...' greatly in favour of LNER.

We could come up with all sorts of comparative stats but, yes, "lies, damn lies and statistics".  I did 'temper' the comment you quoted with a wry comment that on that measure, GWR would probably have been knocked out in the first round.

Agreed - some GWR things are well done, other things could do with improvement.

I'm not blindly loyal to my local team. Unless it's Somerset County Cricket Club!

Agreed again - though working with and supporting the local team is utterly logical and has in recent years been very effective. Talking with others who work with their local teams across the British Isles, I sense that on balance we  do better than most with our particular TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) team - but that's my call in terms of forum, community rail, and rapport on local stations and services which are the more important elements to me.

The closeness of the vote - Just For Fun, remember, is a pretty good indicator of just how close and supported both companies are. The overall NUMBER of votes cast was quite significant too - biggest match so far??   The touting for votes, marketing output from in and coming in an honourable second was an excellent opportunity to remind people of the railway network, and now that GWR have been knocked out it's a promotion well done, effective, and a chance to move on and do other things rather than having further voting calls when I want to answer local transport plans.

I do NOT want Somerset County Cricket Club to be running my local train service - I think they are short of experience for that - 

[Lee]

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is still a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that's too big and too geographically diverse. That to me is why its negatives outweigh its positives. If we are to keep the franchise system then it should return to its constituent parts.

At the risk of wandering off the original topic, I do think there is something in this specific point.

If it were me managing the reorganisation, I would go as follows:

GWR

- Express Routes, with new rolling stock for the longest (4 hour plus) journeys with full buffets.

- The former Thames Trains/First Great Western Link local routes (minus those already taken over/soon to be taken over by TfL^» (Transport for London - about))

- Potential responsibility for Great Malvern-Worcester-Cheltenham-Gloucester services as a result of Transport for Greater Bristol creation (see below)

- Heart of Wessex line services.

- A new tier of regional routes operated by cascaded IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) including:

Cardiff-Taunton extended to Exeter, calling at new Wellington and Cullompton stations.

Portsmouth-Cardiff.

Southampton-Salisbury-Westbury-Swindon-Oxford merging existing Romsey/Salisbury 6 and TransWilts services, providing regular 2tph Southampton-Sailsbury-Westbury, and calling at new Wootton Bassett and Wantage Road stations.

Bristol-Swindon-Oxford calling at new Bathampton, Corsham, Wootton Bassett and Wantage Road stations.

TRANSPORT FOR GREATER BRISTOL

- Existing and upcoming local rail services on the Gloucester/Severn Beach-Westbury and Bristol Parkway-Weston corridors.

- Service and infrastructure enhancements, new line and station openings progressively moving towards the "15 minute frequency" aim.

- Rail and Bus services managed by PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive)-style organisation as part of integrated transport system.

DEVON METRO

- Existing and upcoming local rail services on the Exeter-Plymouth, Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton corridors, with possible extensions towards Honiton and Axminster.

- Plymouth-Gunnislake local services and future extensions to Tavistock and Okehampton.

- Rail and Bus services managed by PTE-style organisation as part of integrated transport system.

ONE CORNWALL

- Existing and upcoming local rail services on the Plymouth-Penzance corridor and Cornish Branch Lines.

- Rail and Bus services managed by PTE-style organisation as part of integrated transport system.

[ellendune]

- Express Routes, with new rolling stock for the longest (4 hour plus) journeys with full buffets.

So that is just London Swansea and beyond and London Penzance.

London Bristol, Cardiff, Worcester, Exeter and Plymouth are all less than 4 hours.  Not going to be a bid order for new trains is it.