"Climate campaigners should block road-building not HS2"

[whole diary]

[MVR S&T]

Well a public inquiry any way:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56364306

[CyclingSid]

Comment on British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) News this morning, nothing will happen until after the climate conference. So possibly just window dressing.



Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronyms

[TaplowGreen]

When I hear the Government pledge to green the economy (and to be fair, the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is doing better than most), and then I see a headline that a new coal mine is to be opened, I find myself checking the calendar to make sure it isn't April 1st.

Hopefully this enquiry will put a full stop to it once and for all. How it ever got this far is baffling - when even the Labour party object to coal mines you can see how the world has changed.

[ellendune]

When I hear the Government pledge to green the economy (and to be fair, the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is doing better than most), and then I see a headline that a new coal mine is to be opened, I find myself checking the calendar to make sure it isn't April 1st.

I am not convinced that the UK is dong better than most.  The government is not really. They make all the right noises then quietly do nothing about it its all hot air.  Think of the grant scheme for green homes,  lots of money promised but then there was little take up they say, look further and you find that the contractor they chose to administer it is the problem not a lack of applications, but a lack of processing those applications and when processed severe delays in making payments. So what do they do. Stop the scheme due to lack of demand.

They talk of a green transport revolution and then propose building lots of new roads and curtailing electrification, even on EW rail where they could do it far cheaper now than later as the line is not open. 

[Sixty3Closure]

I'd tend to agree. I'm putting in Solar panels and the grants and feed in tariffs are much lower than they use to be to the point of not being much of an incentive.

The admin around these schemes is also off putting although I can never decide if that's deliberate.

Raising the building quality of new homes would be a simple way to help go green but its continually put off.

And lowering the cost of public transport and improving the service seems such an obvious solution but there seems to be an ideological objection to it despite the current government spending madly.

[broadgage]

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has done well in greening electricity supply, with about half now comming from renewables. Furthur progress is likely.

That however does not excuse a very poor record in other sectors such as transport and housing.
More road building means more traffic, virtually all of it fossil fuel powered.
Lack of progress on rail electrification.
Lack of progress on building new rail routes or reopening old ones.
No significant progress on electric buses, battery or overhead powered.
Cheaper road fuel which will encourage more driving.

tax cuts to domestic air travel to encourage greater use. Union connectivity encouraged by tax cuts.

New housing with limited public transport provision.
New housing with poor insulation and fossil fuel heating.

Huge waste of fuel in the retail and leisure sectors. Thinking in particular of permanently open shop doorways and the popularity of outdoor heating.

And whilst publictransport is better than driving, "the railway" could do better on fuel use, stations lit in bright daylight, diesel locomotives and multiple units idleing for hours on end. Empty offices lit. etc. etc.

[TaplowGreen]

When I hear the Government pledge to green the economy (and to be fair, the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is doing better than most), and then I see a headline that a new coal mine is to be opened, I find myself checking the calendar to make sure it isn't April 1st.

I am not convinced that the UK is dong better than most.  The government is not really. They make all the right noises then quietly do nothing about it its all hot air.  Think of the grant scheme for green homes,  lots of money promised but then there was little take up they say, look further and you find that the contractor they chose to administer it is the problem not a lack of applications, but a lack of processing those applications and when processed severe delays in making payments. So what do they do. Stop the scheme due to lack of demand.

They talk of a green transport revolution and then propose building lots of new roads and curtailing electrification, even on EW rail where they could do it far cheaper now than later as the line is not open. 

This'll help you - the 2020 Environmental Performance Index.

As you will see, the UK is ranked 4th out of 180 countries - if you click on the UK in the overall rankings it'll give you more of a breakdown and lots of other metrics - obviously always room for improvement, but I think it's fair to say that 4th out of 180 is better than most?

https://epi.yale.edu/epi-results/2020/component/epi

[broadgage]

I find that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) being in fourth place to be very surprising indeed and feel that the figures linked to may be misleading.
For example I note that Afghanistan is near the bottom of the list, I would expect that nation to be relatively green, not as a matter of policy but simply because most of the population are too poor to afford significant fossil fuel.

[ellendune]

I too find it surprising.  However when I look at the detail it becomes more telling.

Look at Climate change: on Greenhouse Gases (GHG^▸ (Greenhouse gas)) growth rates we do very well, that is the change. Have we achieved that by continuing to export manufacturing to China and other far East countries? 

For what I believe is the most important measure GHG per capita we are ranked 124th.   


Edit : VickiS - Clarifying Acronyms

[broadgage]

Green house gases per capita sounds a more realistic measure, and puts the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) in a much poorer position than earlier suggested. Regrettable but believable.

[eightonedee]

But it's not only reduction of CO2 that it is taking into consideration in their scoring scheme  - see the pie diagram on p3 of the document to which TG has supplied the link. It's only 13.2% of the weighting they apply. If I can I will attach a copy of this.

But it would be nice if we could improve our score in that 13.2% by stop messing around with alternatives (high energy input hydrogen production, batteries made out of all kind of nasty materials and generating new recycling challenges) and simply implemented a steady comprehensive electrification program for the railways. And "crossing threads" if someone had the vision to suggest HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) should go all the way to Edinburgh and Glasgow to give "Union Connectivity", with a proper interchange with HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) at one end, so that the incentive to take internal flights is reduced, so much the better.

[TonyK]

The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has done well in greening electricity supply, with about half now comming from renewables. Furthur progress is likely.

One day, somebody will do some real forensic working out of all the various figures. So far this month, the percentage of our electricity coming from wind has varied between zero and 35% at any given moment, and the percentage coming from solar panels between zero and slightly above zero. Biomass varies between about 6% and 10%, depending on how much virgin forest has been fed into the boilers at Drax, which is a scandal. We have front page headlines when a day goes by with renewables producing half our leccy, which doesn't happen often but buoys support. When gas provides the majority, no word is said.

I don't think we get half of our electricity from renewables over a whole year, and I wonder if we ever will. If you have 10,000 windmills producing 40% of the nation's electricity, then 20,000 would produce 80%, but if 10,000 windmills are producing 3%, what sense would there be in building 100,000? There must be a point where adding more doesn't get you more without massive over-provision that can't be justified by the benefits. So far, no-one has defined that point.

That however does not excuse a very poor record in other sectors such as transport and housing.

No it doesn't. The big problem with private vehicles seems to be working out which is the chicken and which is the egg, out of vehicles or infrastructure. It's one thing stopping fossil fuel cars being built, and demand for electric cars is rising, but it is hardly exponential. In part, the lack of infrastructure is at fault, but providers of infrastructure cite lack of customers. The high price and limited battery life are the other major constraints. We will only have arrived at a situation of normality when a family of modest means can buy a 10-year-old electric car that they know will keep them on the road for a good few years with minimal intervention, and we are at least 11 years away from that. Government doesn't really know how to intervene there to get a decent outcome. Public transport should be taking the lead.

Housing is a bit different. New homes, as I know from experience, are built to be energy efficient. The older stock needs to be updated, but any new schemes seem to be for the benefit of business rather than the home-owner, with one notable exception which will benefit my tenants. And me too, in fairness.

When I hear the Government pledge to green the economy (and to be fair, the UK is doing better than most), and then I see a headline that a new coal mine is to be opened, I find myself checking the calendar to make sure it isn't April 1st.

And you are not alone. I found the arguments for the mine to be reasonably persuasive, in that we would not be effectively exporting any pollution connected to the manufacture of the steel we use in this country to anywhere with lesser environmental and human rights standards. Like the arguments in favour of expanding Bristol Airport, there is a potential to reduce emissions against what would happen if nothing was done. There seems to be an element of "What?? Coal!! Bad!!!" about this, but I could be wrong. I will know after the public inquiry.

[broadgage]

Regarding two of the specific projects in the previous post.
I SUPPORT the coal mine proposal. There is no currently available process to manufacture iron and steel without coke made from coal. The only alternative to building the coal mine is to import either the coal, or the steel, probably from china.
I see no environmental gain in importing rather than producing our own. There are also national security implications in being reliant on imports.

As regards the expansion of Bristol or indeed other airports, this I oppose since rail travel is an already available alternative.
Contrary to suggestions from some people, I do not propose an end to air travel, but I am opposed to any expansion.

[TaplowGreen]

I find that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) being in fourth place to be very surprising indeed and feel that the figures linked to may be misleading.
For example I note that Afghanistan is near the bottom of the list, I would expect that nation to be relatively green, not as a matter of policy but simply because most of the population are too poor to afford significant fossil fuel.

Whenever I log on to this forum I tell myself how fortunate I am to be among experts who are better informed than the likes of the Yale Centre for Environmental Law & Policy, Columbia University, The Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, The UN Environment World Conservation Monitoring Centre and numerous other World renowned Professors, academics and Research Fellows.

Truly I walk amongst giants   

[Robin Summerhill]

Whenever I log on to this forum I tell myself how fortunate I am to be among experts who are better informed than the likes of the Yale Centre for Environmental Law & Policy, Columbia University, The Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, The UN Environment World Conservation Monitoring Centre and numerous other World renowned Professors, academics and Research Fellows.

Truly I walk amongst giants   

Once upon a time footballers, entertainers and politicians were the only people that others thought they could do a better job than them, and they were usually men propping up bars.

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