G7 Summit - Cornwall - June 2021

[whole diary]

[Thatcham Crossing]

The US is looking to procure something new, probably based on a Dreamliner 787.

The replacements for the VC-25's will be 2x 747-8's as far as I know. I think the airframes are already built (as Boeing is only making 747 freighters now, and that is due to end soon) and parked in a desert somewhere. Ironically, Wikipedia suggests they were destined for now bankrupt Russian carrier, Transaero.

[infoman]

British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) Spotlight local news are reporting the the hotel to be used has known for some time.

British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) local news availble for TWENTY FOUR hours only on the i-player thingy

Edit:VickiS - clarifying acronym

[Kempis]

I have been wondering what route would be taken by a through train from Paddington to St Ives (which appears to be the nearest station to Tregenna Castle), if a special train were to be run.

Looking at Google maps in satellite view, I see there is a crossover just to the west of St Erth station. So I suppose a train from Paddington would run through St Erth station on the down line, stop west of the crossover, reverse over the crossover onto the up line, pass through St Erth again and then take the branch.

Would the signalling permit such a manoeuvre? Would there be any gauging issues on the branch? It looks as though the platform at St Ives would take a five-car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.); if not, selective door opening could be used.

This is doubtless a pipe-dream, but President-elect Biden is known to be an enthusiast for rail travel, as we discussed here, so perhaps he would be supportive of such a plan.

[grahame]

I have been wondering what route would be taken by a through train from Paddington to St Ives (which appears to be the nearest station to Tregenna Castle), if a special train were to be run.

Boris, I'm sure,  could cycle to Paddington.  Not sure how other leaders would get onto the rail network.

Prior to 2013, there was an airfield at Filton that would probably have been long enough, with a railway track close to the runway and although there's no regular service along there, the line does take diverted passenger trains and I'm sure a platform could have been built - indeed it would have made an excellent rail / air interchange more generally.   And the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) run close to there - little issue with gauging issues.

Looking at Google maps in satellite view, I see there is a crossover just to the west of St Erth station. So I suppose a train from Paddington would run through St Erth station on the down line, stop west of the crossover, reverse over the crossover onto the up line, pass through St Erth again and then take the branch.

Would the signalling permit such a manoeuvre? Would there be any gauging issues on the branch? It looks as though the platform at St Ives would take a five-car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.); if not, selective door opening could be used.

Don't know - but it could certainly bounce back at Penzance if not.   There are through trains from Penzance to St Ives and back at the start and end of the day.   The branch issue would be the length of the carriages around corners for clearance, but well-broadcast trouble spots such as Narbeth tunnel turned out to not be a problem.

This is doubtless a pipe-dream, but President-elect Biden is known to be an enthusiast for rail travel, as we discussed here, so perhaps he would be supportive of such a plan.

Yep - but also a busy man so you have to find somewhat to get him onto the railway 'towards' the West Country, and where the terminal / aircraft to train transfer would be easy - alongside would have been good at Filton ... I can only think of one other airport where it would be really close.   There's a 7,500 foot runway here, and a perimeter gate off the taxiway a few yards from the station.   Problem - very long way from St Ives and more than a bit run down ...

[Clan Line]

Stand by for half the Royal Naval frigates and destroyers to be in the area,

What ! Both of them

[REVUpminster]

they will fly into Newquay and helicopter to the hotel. They won't arrive on a 150.

[Kempis]

Boris, I'm sure,  could cycle to Paddington.  Not sure how other leaders would get onto the rail network.

I had assumed Heathrow, but there is then the issue of accessing the rail network, as you say. If not Heathrow Express to Paddington, perhaps the remains of the Colnbrook branch could be used, or maybe Windsor & Eton Central could be commandeered? I suppose the problem is that the leaders would arrive from different countries at different times, so maybe the special train should be for the press corps and entourage only.

Prior to 2013, there was an airfield at Filton that would probably have been long enough, with a railway track close to the runway and although there's no regular service along there, the line does take diverted passenger trains and I'm sure a platform could have been built - indeed it would have made an excellent rail / air interchange more generally.   And the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) run close to there - little issue with gauging issues.

Indeed -- and there was the North Filton Platform.

Don't know - but it could certainly bounce back at Penzance if not.   There are through trains from Penzance to St Ives and back at the start and end of the day.   The branch issue would be the length of the carriages around corners for clearance, but well-broadcast trouble spots such as Narberth tunnel turned out to not be a problem.

Yes -- going via Penzance would certainly be possible, and might be the only way if a loco-hauled service were used, unless double-headed.

Yep - but also a busy man so you have to find somewhat to get him onto the railway 'towards' the West Country, and where the terminal / aircraft to train transfer would be easy - alongside would have been good at Filton ... I can only think of one other airport where it would be really close.   There's a 7,500 foot runway here, and a perimeter gate off the taxiway a few yards from the station.   Problem - very long way from St Ives and more than a bit run down ...

Ah -- Tees-side Airport to St Ives? Well, there's a first time for everything!

[ellendune]

Joe Biden is no stranger to trains. He has been called Amtrac Joe. 

[Kempis]

they will fly into Newquay and helicopter to the hotel. They won't arrive on a 150.

Well, I said it was a pipe-dream!

But, purely as a matter of academic interest, I would be glad if anyone with local knowledge, or access to a track diagram, could confirm or correct my speculation as to access from London to the St Ives branch.

[grahame]

But, purely as a matter of academic interest, I would be glad if anyone with local knowledge, or access to a track diagram, could confirm or correct my speculation as to access from London to the St Ives branch.

1941 and 1958 diagrams: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1086-12.pdf
from https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwf/S1086.htm

Not sure of current stuff - 2nd bay lost from 1958 but otherwise similar??

Edit to add - http://www.svrsig.org/diags/S1086.htm - changes in 1964

Further edit Picture showing shunt signal still in place dated 6/2012

Not sure if shunt operations are only allowed for empty trains or additionally for
... special trains
... regular passenger trains
... trains conveying people of PM level
... trains conveying people of Queen or President Of The United States (POTUS^▸ (President Of The United States)) level



Edit:VickiS - clarifying abbreviation

[MVR S&T]

https://photos.signalling.org/index?/category/121-st_erth

Would need a reversal, but possible.

[1st fan]

Can the runway at Newquay Airport cope with Air Force One?

I think the answer is yes - so long as it's not got too much fuel on board (so no flying direct back home). After all, it's still the old RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force) St. Mawgan runway. But for Land's End, a negative fuel load would be needed - or else "Air Force One" would be something much smaller relabelled for the occasion.

I've flown into Sint Maarten in the Caribbean which is an infamous 7,500ft runway. They take scheduled 747s so the 9,000ft runway at Newquay should be easy. The VC-25A (military version of the 747-200) has better engines than your average jumbo and STOL^▸ (Short Take Off and Landing) (Short Take Off & Landing) capabilities I believe. It also has a classified system that allows it to achieve cruising height very quickly. That was used for the first time with the President Of The United States (POTUS^▸ (President Of The United States)) on board on 9/11. They wanted to get Bush off the ground ASAP. The two planes have a higher maximum cruising altitude as well. They flew close to that on the day so that they would have greater warning of anyone on an intercept course.

This isn't the only plane that will be used on the visit. There's the C5 Galaxys that will bring over the motorcade/VH-60N, a C32 used for Secret Service personnel etc. Occaisionally an E4B Nightwatch accompanies the president too though not often to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). And finally there's a chance a VC-20C will come over too. That's an Air Force Gulfstream that's used as an emergency backup for the VC-25A.  Can operate from a smaller runway and has enhanced communication gear on board. Normally lands at a different airport to the President so Exeter would be likely.

Edit:VickiS - clarifying abbreviation

[REVUpminster]

It was Royal Air Force (RAF^▸ (Royal Air Force)) St Mawgan and handled the biggest aircraft and is also Spaceport Cornwall as a base for Virgin orbit. If Trump was still president he might have been sent on a sub orbital flight.

Of course it might not be Biden who comes, the way the comedians talk, but President Kamala Harris!

Edit :VickiS - clarifying acronym

[CyclingSid]

If they want to get the American aircraft carriers in, or the Queen Elizabeth (leaks permitting) keep an eye out for the Royal Navy Hydrographic Service checking that nobody is going to scrape their keel.

[TonyK]

Prior to 2013, there was an airfield at Filton that would probably have been long enough, with a railway track close to the runway and although there's no regular service along there, the line does take diverted passenger trains and I'm sure a platform could have been built - indeed it would have made an excellent rail / air interchange more generally.   And the IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) run close to there - little issue with gauging issues.

Indeed, Filton Airfield still had two platforms last time I looked. It just doesn't have an airfield any more.

Yep - but also a busy man so you have to find somewhat to get him onto the railway 'towards' the West Country, and where the terminal / aircraft to train transfer would be easy - alongside would have been good at Filton ... I can only think of one other airport where it would be really close.   There's a 7,500 foot runway here, and a perimeter gate off the taxiway a few yards from the station.   Problem - very long way from St Ives and more than a bit run down ...

Oh, I dunno. Lick of paint...


TeesValleyLine Tees-side Airport2
Adam Brookes (Adambro), CC BY-SA 2.5 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5>, via Wikimedia Commons

...then a 9-hour ride on the train if you're lucky with CrossCountry. The Japanese premier will have spent longer in the air.