Travel advice - Christmas and tiers ... from 19.12.2020

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A new thread - fresh lick of paint, 19th December 2020, for travel advice.  A fast changing few days ...

Headline No. 1 ... if in doubt, don't!

Headline No. 2 ... if you MUST,
- cover your face with a mask
- space out / social distancing
- clean hands often and thoroughly

Headline No. 3 ... public transport is basically SAFE (awaiting confrirmation with the new Covid variant)
- but make sure that what you're travelling TO is legal, safe, open, necessary

Something that may get me into hot water.   Please assume that YOU are infectious when you travel; space from others not only for what you might pick up, but also what you may give to them.  AND THAT MEANS that if you are not wearing a mask (because you and a group that can claim exemption, and need to claim it) you should "double-space" to show your understanding and protect everyone else.

From Dr Chris Witty this afternoon - "If you've packed you bag for Christmas, unpack it!" - happy to quote the propaganda if it's right - but that doesn't feel like propaganda - feels like common sense.  Look forward to NEXT Christmas, and the one after that ...

[CyclingSid]

For those of us in Tier 4 the following applies:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home
I can see cycling round Reading for long will make me feel like a hamster in wheel.

[TaplowGreen]

A new thread - fresh lick of paint, 19th December 2020, for travel advice.  A fast changing few days ...

Headline No. 1 ... if in doubt, don't!

Headline No. 2 ... if you MUST,
- cover your face with a mask
- space out / social distancing
- clean hands often and thoroughly

Headline No. 3 ... public transport is basically SAFE (awaiting confrirmation with the new Covid variant)
- but make sure that what you're travelling TO is legal, safe, open, necessary

Something that may get me into hot water.   Please assume that YOU are infectious when you travel; space from others not only for what you might pick up, but also what you may give to them.  AND THAT MEANS that if you are not wearing a mask (because you and a group that can claim exemption, and need to claim it) you should "double-space" to show your understanding and protect everyone else.

From Dr Chris Witty this afternoon - "If you've packed you bag for Christmas, unpack it!" - happy to quote the propaganda if it's right - but that doesn't feel like propaganda - feels like common sense.  Look forward to NEXT Christmas, and the one after that ...

I'll try to be a bit more succinct (no offence)

Unless it is absolutely necessary to travel based on the prescribed criteria, don't travel. It isn't safe. Turkey will be available at Easter too, and more people will be alive to enjoy it if you stay put now.

[grahame]

I agree the message.

May I just check in pedant mode a few of your words.

... don't travel. It isn't safe. ....

My understanding is that travel by train, or bus - with appropriate social distancing regimes, cleaning and masks, has been evaluated and it's been shown that the travel is safe.  It's what people do when they get "there" that is dangerous - going into homes, crowded places, etc.    Now - that was before the new strain in the South East which is said to spread faster; do you have any information / evidence that the precautions again "properly" spaced and masked trains and buses are ineffective against this new strain which leads you to your "travel isn't safe" conclusion?

Have no doubt - I am still discouraging optional travel - but want to be clear on whether travel itself by train has become dangerous.

[CyclingSid]

If you need to travel, walk or cycle where possible, and plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport. This will allow you to practise social distancing while you travel.

From the above link.

[Electric train]

Have no doubt - I am still discouraging optional travel - but want to be clear on whether travel itself by train has become dangerous.

Optional travel is not an option in Tier 4, essential journeys only

For example travelling by train from Weymouth to Norwich via London is not permitted unless its for work, education or medical appointment

[grahame]

Have no doubt - I am still discouraging optional travel - but want to be clear on whether travel itself by train has become dangerous.

Optional travel is not an option in Tier 4, essential journeys only

For example travelling by train from Weymouth to Norwich via London is not permitted unless its for work, education or medical appointment

Yes, appreciated the cross-London issue.  Gives rise to other questions though...
Basingstoke (Hants, tier 2) to Oxford (Oxon, tier 2) - allowed or not because Reading is in tier 4 - no change of trains
Basingstoke (Hants, tier 2) to Swindon (tier 2) - allowed or not because Reading is in tier 4 - with change of trains
Note - I am not promoting these journeys, just asking about permissibility.

Useful confirmation but no answer to my main question - "has the train with social distancing, masks, cleaning, etc, moved from a safe way of getting around to being unsafe with the new more easily transmittable variant?"

Press and publicity is strongly on tier 4 this morning - and that is the news - it's new, and it applies to a lot of people and the area in which the national decision makers themselves live and work for the most part.  It's also strongly on the reduction of the Christmas concession (which IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) looked risky in the first place) down from 5 to 1 day - and that a day when no public transport is running.  However, Tiers 2, 3 and 1 life carries on to the same rules as those tiers, so we are not looking at a ban on all optional travel and indeed there is encourgament to undertake an element of none-essential life to keep economy and business ticking over; education too except it's largely stopped until the new year.

[Electric train]

Have no doubt - I am still discouraging optional travel - but want to be clear on whether travel itself by train has become dangerous.

Optional travel is not an option in Tier 4, essential journeys only

For example travelling by train from Weymouth to Norwich via London is not permitted unless its for work, education or medical appointment

Yes, appreciated the cross-London issue.  Gives rise to other questions though...
Basingstoke (Hants, tier 2) to Oxford (Oxon, tier 2) - allowed or not because Reading is in tier 4 - no change of trains
Basingstoke (Hants, tier 2) to Swindon (tier 2) - allowed or not because Reading is in tier 4 - with change of trains
Note - I am not promoting these journeys, just asking about permissibility.

Useful confirmation but no answer to my main question - "has the train with social distancing, masks, cleaning, etc, moved from a safe way of getting around to being unsafe with the new more easily transmittable variant?"

Press and publicity is strongly on tier 4 this morning - and that is the news - it's new, and it applies to a lot of people and the area in which the national decision makers themselves live and work for the most part.  It's also strongly on the reduction of the Christmas concession (which IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) looked risky in the first place) down from 5 to 1 day - and that a day when no public transport is running.  However, Tiers 2, 3 and 1 life carries on to the same rules as those tiers, so we are not looking at a ban on all optional travel and indeed there is encourgament to undertake an element of none-essential life to keep economy and business ticking over; education too except it's largely stopped until the new year.

From the Government website for Tier 3 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert#travel

You should stay local and avoid travelling outside of your local area, meaning your village or town, or part of a city, where possible. People should continue to travel for reasons such as work, education, medical attention or caring responsibilities.

You should still avoid travelling outside your tier 3 area other than for the reasons like those above, and reduce the number of journeys you make wherever possible.

For Tier 2 it says You can travel through a Tier 3 area as a part of a longer journey; but makes no mention of Tier 4

[Jamsdad]

Still not clear how much of this is legal prohibition as opposed to  "guidance". The new Health Regualtions ( i.e law) have not ( Sunday ) yet been published.

[grahame]

Still not clear how much of this is legal prohibition as opposed to  "guidance". The new Health Regualtions ( i.e law) have not ( Sunday ) yet been published.

A very interesting comment ... I noted an article in the Spectator that hints at an answer.

As is perhaps inevitable when advance notice is given of a stable door shutting, the response of many in London last night was to head for the railway stations and get out of town whilst they could.

The reaction to this has been condemnation. The Health Secretary Matt Hancock described the scenes at stations as 'totally irresponsible'. The Transport Secretary Grant Shapps weighed in, not just with condemnation, but hinting at a police response. He said 'If you are in Tier 4, the law means you must stay at home and you cannot stay overnight away from home'; 'Follow the guidance and please do not come to a station unless you are permitted to travel. Extra British Transport Police officers are being deployed to ensure only those who need to take essential journeys can travel safely.' Peter Hendy, the government?s 'Christmas travel tsar' (who knew?) said that 'additional BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) officers are in place to ensure only essential journeys take place'.

What does the law say?

When I refer to law, I mean ...

[snip]

From the get-go, despite having draconian powers at its fingertips, the government seems to have resolved to overstate its exercise of those powers in published guidance, rather than taking the more obvious step of passing laws that matched what it wished for.

[Bob_Blakey]

Government travel advice has now been updated. For us (Exeter-Tier 2) it now says 'where necessary, you can travel through tier 3 and tier 4 areas as part of a longer journey' so our return on 27/12 via London will now be OK - as long as EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about) & GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) don't cancel the services!

[Jamsdad]

A further interesting point from the Essex Police and Crime Commissioner re Tier 4. "It is not illegal to travel. It is illegal to leave your house other than for the 39 specific reasons to do so." Police can check your reason for being out but they cannot prevent you from travel !

[grahame]

My understanding is that travel by train, or bus - with appropriate social distancing regimes, cleaning and masks, has been evaluated and it's been shown that the travel is safe.  It's what people do when they get "there" that is dangerous - going into homes, crowded places, etc.    Now - that was before the new strain in the South East which is said to spread faster; do you have any information / evidence that the precautions again "properly" spaced and masked trains and buses are ineffective against this new strain which leads you to your "travel isn't safe" conclusion?

An update - for the new strain, I'm told that  information is currently incomplete as to how effective social distancing is.  Early days, being evaluated.  My sources are reasonable but not always accurate, but whatever the accuracy it's sensible to only travel if you need to, and keep any travel local if you possibly can.

[grahame]

I hope Chris Rea is a student ...

[bobm]

I hope Chris Rea is a student ...