Should Advance tickets be refunded when changed advice changes people's plans?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Having advised people to plan (and book) well in advance for the Christmas get-away, official advice is now to stay at home if you possibly can, because mixing groups is likely to spread coronavirus further, faster, deeper. 

Should people who followed government advice and booked early, and are now switching to follow the new government advice, be fully refunded even for advanced / uncancelleable tickets they bought in good faith?

From The Metro

The Transport Secretary has been urged to guarantee that anyone who cancels Christmas travel plans because of a change in Government advice is reimbursed.

Last month people across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) were told coronavirus laws would be relaxed to allow the mixing of up to three households between December 23 and 27, and encouraged to book train tickets in advance to avoid being denied entry on trains.

But after rising concerns the move will lead to a surge of new infections and deaths, Boris Johnson urged people to scale down their plans to have "short" and 'small' Christmases.

He warned Britons against travelling between areas of high and low prevalence of the virus, while Wales is going as far as changing the law to limit mixing to two households.

Since then the Liberal Democrats have pressed ministers 'to do the right thing' by ensuring people do not lose out financially on non-refundable tickets if they follow new guidance for the festive period.

In a letter to Transport Secretary Grant Shapps and the Prime Minister, Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey and his transport spokeswoman Sarah Olney said: 'It is only right for you to guarantee that full refunds of train fares paid in advance will be available if people cancel their rail tickets for travel over Christmas.

'People booked these tickets in good faith, following your advice, and now that advice has changed it must be right for you to ensure they will receive their money back. We hope you will do the right thing.'

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: 'We recognise people will want to travel to see their family over Christmas so we have been clear on our guidance around travelling.

'People should plan their journeys carefully and book in advance wherever possible to ensure they can visit the people they've formed a Christmas bubble with.'

[ChrisB]

I think I saw a tweet from Grant Shapps only yesterday that said no fees were goong to be charged on advance ticket changes/refunds....so it?s possible that this is already sorted

[TaplowGreen]

I think I saw a tweet from Grant Shapps only yesterday that said no fees were goong to be charged on advance ticket changes/refunds....so it?s possible that this is already sorted

Yes from what I can see charges are being waived.

Morally they have no choice.

[eXPassenger]

This is particularly relevant with the new changes.  No travel in or out of London and Christmas bubble mixing for the remainder restricted to Christmas Day.

Fortunately our food is either in the freezer or not yet bought.

[ChrisB]

Or Reading/Berkshire too.

[grahame]

No travel in or out of London and Christmas bubble mixing for the remainder restricted to Christmas Day.

Which really eliminates special Christmas rules for anyone who has to use public transport.   Just saying - I really think that a one day relaxation for Christmas Day is a mistake, but still discriminatory against none-drivers / car-less people.

[ChrisB]

Agreed - it could have been restricted to one day out of the five originally

[ellendune]

No travel in or out of London and Christmas bubble mixing for the remainder restricted to Christmas Day.

Which really eliminates special Christmas rules for anyone who has to use public transport.   Just saying - I really think that a one day relaxation for Christmas Day is a mistake, but still discriminatory against none-drivers / car-less people.

Yes, it is the intention is that travel should be local only. So long distance rail should not be required anyway. 

[grahame]

From Which?

Which? responds to government announcing Tier 4 restrictions for London and the South East

19 December 2020

Adam French, Which? Consumer Rights Expert, said:

"These new restrictions will cause massive travel disruption and chaos, leaving many peoples' festive plans in tatters. If you?ve forked out on money for a train ticket and have to stay put you should be able to cancel the trip and get your money back.

"Rail operators should be as accommodating as possible by allowing passengers the flexibility to use tickets or issuing them refunds if they can't travel at another time."

[didcotdean]

Seen videos on twitter of a packed St Pancras tonight; anyone witnessed an exodus elsewhere?

[grahame]

From https://firstgroup-refunds.fastrailticketing.com which is linked to from the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) front page this morning (20.12.20)

Refund Claim Form

If you bought an ANYTIME, OFF-PEAK, SUPER OFF-PEAK or SEASON TICKET from us, we can provide refunds on these tickets if for any reason you didn't, or are now unable to, travel. A GBP10 fee applies to all claims.

Refunds on Season Tickets are calculated from the date the ticket is surrendered to us.

ADVANCE tickets are usually non-refundable. In some cases they can be exchanged for travel on the same route but at a different time and/or date; or refunded in the cases of illness or medical reasons. You can also apply for refund if your train is delayed or cancelled and you are unable to complete your journey as planned.

Special arrangements for ADVANCE tickets during Covid-19

If you bought an ADVANCE ticket for travel to/from a location with a High or Very High Covid alert status in England OR after National Lockdown 5th Nov to 2nd Dec (or the equivalent in Wales & Scotland), before the alert status was announced, you can change your ticket for an alternative date/train and the normal admin fee will be waived. Please select "Change of Journey ? new journey booked" as the reason for your refund claim when you complete this form and provide us with the details of your new booking.

If you are now unable to travel, but due to any uncertainty around the local measures you are currently unable to book another journey, the normal refund fee will be waived and you will receive vouchers to the value of the original ticket cost. Please select "COVID ? Travel Vouchers Required" as the reason for your refund claim.

If you bought your ticket from another retailer, you'll need to get in touch with them directly for advice on changes and refunds.

Information about our current processing times and further guidance about refunds can be found on the GWR website.

Either it needs an update ... or if you've bought an Advance ticket for Christmas that you can't use, you'll get vouchers. rather than a refund, but not be charged a fee.  Changes to other tickets incur a fee of GBP 10, even if you're changing them because Boris has ordered you to do so.

[grahame]

Update from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - "cash" back in full now ...

Everyone who has had to cancel a rail or coach journey in England between 23 and 27 December will be able to get a refund, the government has announced.

It comes after the planned easing of Covid rules for Christmas was scrapped for large parts of south-east England.

For the rest of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), the relaxation of the rules now applies only to Christmas Day.

"Passengers will not be left out of pocket for complying with the new Christmas rules," the government said.

The policy was announced by the Department for Transport following Prime Minister Boris Johnson's announcement on Saturday of new Covid rules for Christmas.

and

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: "It is imperative that we all follow the new measures and play our part in tackling this virus, protecting others and safeguarding our NHS.

"If you booked a coach or rail journey between 23 and 27 December, you are entitled to a cash refund. This ensures no one is left out of pocket for doing the right thing - staying home in tier four, and elsewhere staying local and only meeting your Christmas bubble on Christmas day."

The government will provide cash refunds for domestic rail and coach tickets. This will apply to journeys in England booked on or after 24 November, when the now-scrapped Christmas travel window was announced.

Operators will be able to issue refunds immediately and passengers are advised to check the website of their operator for how to claim.

The government urged people to "be patient", as rail and coach operators will be processing high numbers of refunds over the coming weeks.

As at time of sharing this, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website not updated ... offering just vouchers. However, it is backdated to 2nd November lockdown and not to 24th announcement from the Government.  No doubt this will become clearer .. policy and decisions on the hoof in these extraordinary times.

[PhilWakely]

Just been announced....
ALL TYPES OF TICKET [walk-up and advance] for travel between 23rd and 27th December (inclusive) will be fully refunded provided the ticket was purchased between 24th November and 20th December inclusive.

Existing refund rules will apply for tickets purchased before 24th November or for travel after 28th December.