Will Cornwall be worse off after completion of Brexit?

[whole diary]

[Robin Summerhill]

As I see it, there's no point in answering this question with anything other than "we shall see." For better or worse, not only Cornwall but also the rest of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) will soon discover whether those "sunlit uplands" were nothing more than a ?sd-induced nostalgia trip or if "project fear" was indeed baseless scaremongering. Up till now, it's been about visions; in 2024, it'll be time for the voters to pass their verdict on the reality, as defined by the current Government in the form of whatever arrangement with the EU^» (European Union - about) that it eventually settles on.

PS - Robin Summerhill, there was indeed European involvement in the A30 upgrade.
https://www.cornwallislesofscillygrowthprogramme.org.uk/projects/a30-carland-chiverton-cross-development-phase/

NB Although the county as a whole voted Leave, one of the 6 parliamentary constituencies (Truro & Falmouth) voted Remain.

I agree wholeheartedly. The facts of the matter are that whether you are one of the 17m who voted to leave, the 16m who voted to remain, or the 13m registered electors who didn?t appear to give a toss either way because they didn?t vote (https://www.indy100.com/news/brexit-leave-remain-52-48-per-cent-voter-turnout-electoral-register-charts-7399226 ) , we are where we are.

Thanks fir clarifying the position regarding EU funding for Cornish road improvements; I haven?t driven down there since 2011 and after I?d written it I thought I remembered seeing EU funding signs but I couldn?t be sure.

Thanks also to GBM for clarifying the Carland Cross/ Redruth matter. In the earlier post I referred to I said Carling Cross near Redruth, and I abbreviated that in my later post. Clearly I won?t be doing that again

I will come back later to further examine some of the suspect claims and misinformation from another poster ? unless the thread gets locked first!

[GBM]

Clearly I won?t be doing that again

Proper job! 

[Andy]

As I see it, there's no point in answering this question with anything other than "we shall see." For better or worse, not only Cornwall but also the rest of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) will soon discover whether those "sunlit uplands" were nothing more than a ?sd-induced nostalgia trip or if "project fear" was indeed baseless scaremongering. Up till now, it's been about visions; in 2024, it'll be time for the voters to pass their verdict on the reality, as defined by the current Government in the form of whatever arrangement with the EU^» (European Union - about) that it eventually settles on.

PS - Robin Summerhill, there was indeed European involvement in the A30 upgrade.
https://www.cornwallislesofscillygrowthprogramme.org.uk/projects/a30-carland-chiverton-cross-development-phase/

NB Although the county as a whole voted Leave, one of the 6 parliamentary constituencies (Truro & Falmouth) voted Remain.

I agree wholeheartedly. The facts of the matter are that whether you are one of the 17m who voted to leave, the 16m who voted to remain, or the 13m registered electors who didn?t appear to give a toss either way because they didn?t vote (https://www.indy100.com/news/brexit-leave-remain-52-48-per-cent-voter-turnout-electoral-register-charts-7399226 ) , we are where we are.

We could also add a fair few of the 1.3 million or so British citizens living in the E.U. (and therefore directly affected by the result) who were unable to vote in the 2016 referendum because successive British governments (Blair/Brown and Cameron) decided they should no longer retain their voting rights.... IMO^▸ (in my opinion), it probably would have made the result even closer had they been given a vote but I doubt it would have actually produced a different outcome in the end. 

Anyway, as you say, things are what they are...

 

 

 

[REVUpminster]

The government and opposition of 2016 all campaigned to remain. Dire consequences from Cameron and Osborne if we vote to leave. They lost.

Boris got a big majority in 2019. Remainer's, Lib/dems in a big way, lost and we are where we are.

[Andy]

The government and opposition of 2016 all campaigned to remain. Dire consequences from Cameron and Osborne if we vote to leave. They lost.

Boris got a big majority in 2019. Remainer's, Lib/dems in a big way, lost and we are where we are.

All incontrovertible .... For info, 5/6 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) in Cornwall campaigned for Leave, the exception being Sarah Newton, the MP for Truro & Falmouth.

[TaplowGreen]

From The BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page), at the risk of starting an incendiary thread.

Cornwall could be "significantly worse off" after Brexit, receiving just 5% of what it needs to replace EU^» (European Union - about) funding, according to a local councillor.

One of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s poorest areas, Cornwall has applied for ?700m over 10 years from the government to replace EU cash.
However, there are fears that the county could get as little as ?1.8m in the first year.

The government said it would work with "councils and other key stakeholders on how best to use" money it provided.

Cornwall has (my understanding) been a consistant and significant net beneficiary of funding via the EU over the years, and on purely financial terms the decision to leave the EU will leave them worse off.   Of course, EU membership or lack of it is about more than just money, so this is just one factor which needed to be weighed up.  Cornwall voted "leave" so there is no realistic option for them to say "but we didn't want to go but were dragged by the rest of the UK".

There are a number of excellent public transport schemes underway in Cornwall, and with the zero carbon agenda much work on the horizon - electric trains (OHLE) to Penzance and electric trains (battery) to Looe and to St Ives ...

Cornwall voting the leave the EU is quite possibly the greatest example of cutting off the nose to spite the face in history.......................still, fish eh? 

[Red Squirrel]

The government and opposition of 2016 all campaigned to remain. Dire consequences from Cameron and Osborne if we vote to leave. They lost.

Boris got a big majority in 2019. Remainer's, Lib/dems in a big way, lost and we are where we are.

I suppose the main reason this issue gets people so hot under the collar is that this wasn't like a General Election where you can change your mind a few years later if it doesn't work out. This isn't a trial separation. Britain is out of the EU^» (European Union - about) for a generation.

I suspect my children will see England (or most of it) rejoin the EU (in whatever form it takes) in about 30 years' time. I doubt the terms will be anything like as good as we had as part of Britain, but we are, as others have said, where we are, and in a few years time we will be where we will be.

[Robin Summerhill]

Cornwall voting the leave the EU^» (European Union - about) is quite possibly the greatest example of cutting off the nose to spite the face in history.......................still, fish eh? 

Not just fish. Think of the new markets there will be in bendy bananas and curly cucumbers...

[eightonedee]

.....and for the supply of software to enable businesses to supply goods and services to get through the new customs and regulatory barriers when doing business with the 400m market just 18 miles away....

[Andy]

.....and for the supply of software to enable businesses to supply goods and services to get through the new customs and regulatory barriers when doing business with the 400m market just 18 miles away....

...not to mention all the new jobs created in customs and immigration.   

[REVUpminster]

Just think of all those lorries queuing at Dover.  Dover handles 1.8m lorries a year, most of them from countries in the EU^» (European Union - about) and beyond and not British based. I would think they would want them back to make more deliveries.

And to get back to Cornwall; all these road and rail improvements the EU paid for have made the people poorer and the property more expensive. Odd that?

[Andy]

Just think of all those lorries queuing at Dover.  Dover handles 1.8m lorries a year, most of them from countries in the EU^» (European Union - about) and beyond and not British based. I would think they would want them back to make more deliveries.

And to get back to Cornwall; all these road and rail improvements the EU paid for have made the people poorer and the property more expensive. Odd that?

Only the improvements the EU paid for or all of them? Only the Cornish poorer or all of the people (in Europe), even the home owners whose property has increased in value?

[Robin Summerhill]

Just think of all those lorries queuing at Dover.  Dover handles 1.8m lorries a year, most of them from countries in the EU^» (European Union - about) and beyond and not British based. I would think they would want them back to make more deliveries.

And to get back to Cornwall; all these road and rail improvements the EU paid for have made the people poorer and the property more expensive. Odd that?

On another railway forum I subscribe to, one that concentrates on the Southern Railway, its successors and predecessors, I have a nemesis. This man takes the view that the Southern can do nothing wrong and the Western nothing right. No matter what the issue the problem is, the fault lies with the vindictive western region management or those emissaries of Beelzebub himself in the closure unit at Bristol in the Beeching era.

According to him, for example, the single track width bridge where the LSW line passes under the M5 was a vindictive present from the WR; arch-demon Gerry Fiennes single-handedly decimated the former SR^‡(resolve) lines west of Exeter; if the SR had kept control there would still be a Waterloo to Bude service; the WR were being callous to passengers when management told the signalman at Challow to stop looping the Cheltenham Spa Express for a special stop if their booked train was late, and so on. Never before in my life have I come across somebody with more confirmation bias than the sea has salt.

Until I witnessed the pre-Brexit referendum campaigning, that is...

So to get back to the plot, please put me out of my ignorance and explain how imports are supposed to get here, especially highly perishable ones like fresh food, if not brought by foreign trucks on ferries or through the tunnel? (Clue ? a catapult in Calais won?t work for soft fruit and vegetables and won?t do white electrical goods a lot of good either)

Similarly, can you explain how EU funding has made Cornwall poorer, and equally importantly, how would Cornwall have been richer if the EU had kept their filthy lucre in their pockets?

I look forward to reading your reply.

[REVUpminster]

Just think of all those lorries queuing at Dover.  Dover handles 1.8m lorries a year, most of them from countries in the EU^» (European Union - about) and beyond and not British based. I would think they would want them back to make more deliveries.

And to get back to Cornwall; all these road and rail improvements the EU paid for have made the people poorer and the property more expensive. Odd that?

On another railway forum I subscribe to, one that concentrates on the Southern Railway, its successors and predecessors, I have a nemesis. This man takes the view that the Southern can do nothing wrong and the Western nothing right. No matter what the issue the problem is, the fault lies with the vindictive western region management or those emissaries of Beelzebub himself in the closure unit at Bristol in the Beeching era.

According to him, for example, the single track width bridge where the LSW line passes under the M5 was a vindictive present from the WR; arch-demon Gerry Fiennes single-handedly decimated the former SR^‡(resolve) lines west of Exeter; if the SR had kept control there would still be a Waterloo to Bude service; the WR were being callous to passengers when management told the signalman at Challow to stop looping the Cheltenham Spa Express for a special stop if their booked train was late, and so on. Never before in my life have I come across somebody with more confirmation bias than the sea has salt.

Until I witnessed the pre-Brexit referendum campaigning, that is...

So to get back to the plot, please put me out of my ignorance and explain how imports are supposed to get here, especially highly perishable ones like fresh food, if not brought by foreign trucks on ferries or through the tunnel? (Clue ? a catapult in Calais won?t work for soft fruit and vegetables and won?t do white electrical goods a lot of good either)

Similarly, can you explain how EU funding has made Cornwall poorer, and equally importantly, how would Cornwall have been richer if the EU had kept their filthy lucre in their pockets?

I look forward to reading your reply.

I never said the lorries would not come but they have to go back and if the EU decide to tie them in red tape and delay them at Dover then their owners will not be happy as a lorry not travelling is not making money or will the EU be vindictive enough to only delay British lorries.  As for catapaults, that's a fantasy of yours or some sarcastic point trying to be made.

The filthy lucre of the EU is money from net contributors to the EU such as Britain, France, Germany, and the Netherlands.
They have no money of their own.

[Robin Summerhill]

I never said the lorries would not come but they have to go back and if the EU^» (European Union - about) decide to tie them in red tape and delay them at Dover then their owners will not be happy as a lorry not travelling is not making money or will the EU be vindictive enough to only delay British lorries.  As for catapaults, that's a fantasy of yours or some sarcastic point trying to be made.

The filthy lucre of the EU is money from net contributors to the EU such as Britain, France, Germany, and the Netherlands.
They have no money of their own.

Your precise words were:

Just think of all those lorries queuing at Dover.  Dover handles 1.8m lorries a year, most of them from countries in the EU and beyond and not British based. I would think they would want them back to make more deliveries.

On reading them again in the context of your reply I see that you didnt perhaps mean whst I thought you meant, which came across to me that you wanted to see the end of continental lorries on UK^▸ (United Kingdom) roads. So that clears that up.

My remark about catapults was neither a fantasy nor sarcasm, it was meant as surreal humour, in much the same vein as The Goons or Paul Mertons early work.

As regards border controls, all countries that have borders have border controls in place unless they have reciprocal arrangements. The UK had reciprocal arrangements when it was i the EU and part of the customs union and single market.

When it left the EU the UK also chose to leave the customs union and single market. It did not have to. So now the EU reintroduces border controls that are only there because of the UKs sovereign choice, and the EU are the ones being vindictive.

Hmmm...

As regards Cornwall and funding, no government body has any money of its own so I fail to see how this explains why Cornwall is any poorer. Even if the A30 dualing had been down to Parish Councils (surreal humour again) they would still have to raise the money from their tax payers