Lockdown - from 5th November 2020 - travel rules and advice

[whole diary]

[grahame]

1st November 2020 - we're almost certain to have a lockdown in ENGLAND from 5th November 2020 to at least 2nd December 2020.   I will link add general advise to this thread as details become clear, and link it from out home page

Keep safe, everyone!

[grahame]

From www.gov.uk (I and NOT putting quote tags around this to keep it easier to read).   This is section 11 of a very long document full of rules and data.

You should avoid travelling in or out of your local area, and you should look to reduce the number of journeys you make. However you can and should still travel for a number of reasons, including:

* travelling to work where this cannot be done from home
* travelling to education and for caring responsibilities
* hospital GP and other medical appointments or visits where you have had an accident or are concerned about your health
* visiting venues that are open, including essential retail
* exercise, if you need to make a short journey to do so

If you need to travel we encourage you to walk or cycle where possible, and to plan ahead and avoid busy times and routes on public transport. This will allow you to practise social distancing while you travel.

Overnight stays and holidays away from primary residences will not be allowed. This includes holidays abroad and in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). It also means you cannot stay in a second home, if you own one, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with. There are specific exceptions, for example if you need to stay away from home (including in a second home) for work purposes, but this means people cannot travel overseas or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted reasons.

You must not travel if you are experiencing any coronavirus symptoms, are self-isolating as a result of coronavirus symptoms, are sharing a household or support bubble with somebody with symptoms, or have been told to self-isolate after being contacted by NHS Test and Trace.

If you need to use public transport - to travel to work for example - you should follow the safer travel guidance. This includes the rules on wearing face masks and advice on car sharing.

For those planning to travel into England, you should check the current travel corridor list to see whether you need to isolate for 14 days. You will still be required to abide by the restrictions set out here even if you do not need to isolate. If you do need to travel overseas from England before 2 December (and are legally permitted to do so, for example, because it is for work), even if you are returning to a place you?ve visited before, you should look at the rules in place at your destination, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (FCDO) travel advice.

British nationals currently abroad do not need to return home immediately. However, you should check with your airline or travel operator on arrangements for returning.

[Robin Summerhill]

It will be interesting to see how this pans out this time.

I am not advocating ignoring the rules by any means, but after the pranks of Dominic Cummings, Margaret Ferrier, Stanley Johnson and the like, who appear to think that the rules are there for everybpdy else and dont apply to them, I suspect levels of compliance will be lower than they were last time around

[Marlburian]

Awkward situation for the husband of a lifelong friend who's just died. They lived in Hastings where he currently is, sorting out the situation. She died in Torquay, where the funeral is due to take place later this month. He's not meant to travel to a "second home", though pedantically it wasn't his, but hers.  Five-hour drive between the two towns.

I've been trying to decide whether to go down by train or drive, but don't fancy relying on taxis to and from stations and I couldn't manage there-and-back by car in one day at this time of year. And I'm not meant to stay overnight away from home.

On the plus side, I'm allowed one person as a support bubble and the nominee has just moved from Southend to nearer me - though perhaps not close enough to meet the spirit of the directives.

[grahame]

Awkward situation for the husband of a lifelong friend who's just died.

There are going to be no magic answers - difficult individual cases where the broad brush of laws / rules cause real concerns. Depending on who you come across, most enforcers / people / organisations will by sympathetic and bend a little - but the worry is that the person travelling will come across a jobsworth somewhere.

Has he thought of getting in touch with the funeral group in Torquay, and asking if one of the other mourners could pick him up (duly masked) from the station and drop him back there?  People really come together at times like these and the comfort even of knowing you're in the same boat as a stranger might help.   The other (but expensive) alternative might be to take the train and hire a car for the day in the area.

[TaplowGreen]

Awkward situation for the husband of a lifelong friend who's just died. They lived in Hastings where he currently is, sorting out the situation. She died in Torquay, where the funeral is due to take place later this month. He's not meant to travel to a "second home", though pedantically it wasn't his, but hers.  Five-hour drive between the two towns.

I've been trying to decide whether to go down by train or drive, but don't fancy relying on taxis to and from stations and I couldn't manage there-and-back by car in one day at this time of year. And I'm not meant to stay overnight away from home.

On the plus side, I'm allowed one person as a support bubble and the nominee has just moved from Southend to nearer me - though perhaps not close enough to meet the spirit of the directives.

If you don't fancy driving both ways in one day, you could hire a car to get you there and take the train back, or vice versa.

Quite a few car hire companies will do one way hires.

[Marlburian]

Thanks for the suggestions. Hastings to Torquay by train is a bit of a haul at the best of times and the widower is a former professional chauffeur, so used to driving. He'll need a car to move personal goods from one house to another.

I would find a hire car a challenge to get used to, and I would do more "touching" inside it than on a train. My  eyes are not good for night driving and I would have to leave before dawn to get to the crematorium. (And we're now getting weather forecasts warning of early-morning list.)

Other mourners - some of the same vulnerable age as I - are due to come from Essex and Farnham. TBH^▸ (to be honest) I'm waiting for the widower (himself aged 75) to acknowledge that it would be unwise for some of us to attend. A couple of my own friends have urged me not to go.

Very difficult for the widower: losing his wife, arranging the funeral etc, sorting out the estate, selling the Torquay house. Challenging at the best of times but now ...

[broadgage]

I suspect that compliance will be very poor.
Significant numbers of people are planning to ignore or evade the restrictions.

Look at thenumber of raves, street parties and other illegal gatherings, that are illegal at present but are continueing.

I know of one large family who are going to meet for Christmas and believe that they have found a legal loophole to permit this.

[Marlburian]

I have offers from two friends to be my "support bubble" and admit to being tempted to accept both. Both know about each other and we've discussed the risks. One has just moved to a village to start a new life on her own and would benefit from my company as much as I would from hers. That apart, I shall have little trouble complying with the guidance,though shall mutter if I need something from a shop that is closed.

My plumber has confirmed that he can keep this Friday's appointment to service my boiler, which is in my garage. I think that this is allowed and in any case he won't be touching anything that I've touched recently and I won't be touching for some time anything that he's likely to touch.

(It would be a sad state of affairs if the usual winter-time problems with boilers, pipes etc can't be attended to.)

[Bmblbzzz]

I think if it's work that needs doing to keep a boiler running, rather than an upgrade, it should count as essential work. I am not a lawyer nor have I studied the rules in detail.

[TaplowGreen]

I suspect that compliance will be very poor.
Significant numbers of people are planning to ignore or evade the restrictions.

Look at thenumber of raves, street parties and other illegal gatherings, that are illegal at present but are continueing.

I know of one large family who are going to meet for Christmas and believe that they have found a legal loophole to permit this.

Broadgage I hope this doesn't mean you're thinking of arranging a rave?

You should bear in mind that the crates of empty Port bottles afterwards will be a giveaway to the authorities as to who's responsible!   

[broadgage]

I have no intention of organising any illegal gathering, and I hope and expect to comply with the other rules.

No sphopping apart from home deliveries.
I expect to visit neighbours, but think that this is allowed. I will be the only visitor and we will meet outside, or if raining in an open sided gazebo.
Transport by horse* drawn cart, so in the open air and over 2 meters distant from the driver.

Vet visit booked for health check and vaccinations of pet cat, but booked for the day before the lockdown starts.

*Readers will be glad to know that it is a large strong horse.

[Robin Summerhill]

I suspect that compliance will be very poor.
Significant numbers of people are planning to ignore or evade the restrictions.

Look at thenumber of raves, street parties and other illegal gatherings, that are illegal at present but are continueing.

I know of one large family who are going to meet for Christmas and believe that they have found a legal loophole to permit this.

You should bear in mind that the crates of empty Port bottles afterwards will be a giveaway to the authorities as to who's responsible!   

I think we also need to bear in mind that, as a  news story, good news is not news. Were are hardly likelyto hear any stories in the media about people behaving themselves...

[southwest]

I suspect my views are similar to most, I am very angry about this if the government had done their job properly we would have never needed to do this. The South West has the lowest cases in the country yet is still being locked down

I will comply with it but I believe the tide is turning, Boris is running limited time and will be ousted sometimes next year.

[GBM]

Unfortunately in Cornwall we only have one main hospital, and this is beginning to slowly fill with C-19 cases.
Once this reaches a certain level, then routine operations and investigations will cease.

It's a beautiful County but only has one main hospital, and that must be protected.

Cases are now beginning to climb, even amongst remote villages, and this is concerning.

Unfortunately we're also seeing the knock-on effects in schools as staff isolate for tests.