'Reopen' database

[whole diary]

[Lee]

It may be of no use whatsoever, but Rose Hill Marple is a curious one. Temporarily suspended (AIUI^▸ (as I understand it)) during the pandemic, it is currenly mainly being served by rail replacement buses running to and from Romiley, but RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) shows three trains booked to run today, one of which was cancelled.

The whole service was originally planned to be "temporarily suspended" until mid-December:

Much of the author's formative experience resonates with me. For most of my childhood our family had no car, my father only getting one very late on when his business needs made it indispensable. He always loathed driving it though, and as a result, I too have many memories of days out planned with public transport timetables, maps etc, undoubtedly shaping and influencing how I turned out and what I do today. I myself have never owned a car, and never wish to.

Since the current coronavirus crisis began, I have been of the view that overt line and station closures are unlikely at the same time as the government is embarking on a high profile "Reversing Beeching" campaign. However, I wouldn't rule out lengthy or semi-permanent French-style "Temporary Suspensions", an early example of which seems to have popped up on the Rose Hill Marple-Manchester Piccadilly route.

In the vanguard of that battle is local MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Andrew Gwynne, who joined forces with us at CANBER^▸ (Campaign Against the New Beeching Report) and Save The Train to successfully defeat the 2007 closure proposals at Denton and Reddish South. I therefore have high hopes that the cross-party alliance that he is part of to fight the Rose Hill suspension will put up a very robust defence.

However, the campaign was successful in forcing a last minute u-turn, and a plan to keep a limited train service running in the meantime, and then a gradual stepping back up of the frequency from the end of October, has instead been agreed:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/services-continue-vital-rail-line-18920002

https://marketingstockport.co.uk/news/council-confirms-plan-to-restore-marple-train-services/

[grahame]

Thanks for the questions Graham, some of which I was already considering.

Thought you would be ... and worried if you had not.   Thanks for filling us in; means we can (as, when and if you ask) help find and tailor.  Answers look eminently sensible.

[JackAtReopen]

Thanks for your input, Robin. Great photos. I've created a Reopen page named Rose Hill Marple to Maple Grove / Hazel Grove line until the mystery has been resolved: http://reopen.org.uk/rose-hill-marple-maple-grove-line/.

[Robin Summerhill]

There never was a direct railway line between Rose Hill and Hazel Grove. There was a theoretical travel possibility between the two by changing at Middletwood where the Rose Hill to Macclesfield line crosses the Stockport to Buxton one, but what the connection were like I have no idea!

I am not aware of any town or village called Maple Grove and neither, or so it appears, has Google Maps 

[Kempis]

I am not aware of any town or village called Maple Grove and neither, or so it appears, has Google Maps 

Jack may have been thinking of Mrs Elton, who refers to Maple Grove, the fine residence of her brother-in-law, Mr Suckling, at the slightest opportunity.

The first reference is here: http://www.mollands.net/etexts/emma/emma32.html

[Robin Summerhill]

THe 7th series one inch OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) maps, published in the 1960s and showing most of the pre-Beeching lines still open, are available in a seamless version online:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/

Select One Inch OS maps from the category drop down menu on the left

The find facility works but not very well for me because you still have to zoom in and unless you get your reference point at the centre of the screen it can zoom you in somewhere you didn't want to go!

[JackAtReopen]

Robin, I'm still trying to get the hang of this forum interface. It's far from intuitive and it's hard to see how to respond to a nested comment. So apologies if I'm doing it all wrong. Anyway, thanks for the map link. It's a rebranded OpenStreetMap.

[grahame]

It's far from intuitive and it's hard to see how to respond to a nested comment. So apologies if I'm doing it all wrong.

Hi, Jack ... click on "quote" at the top of the post you want to quote ... or if you have hit on "reply" you can scroll down to click on "insert quote"  - that's more flexible if you want to quote several different posts,

We each "do it" our own way ... the moderator and admin team happy to help tune posts / move things around a little to help them be more readable both now and in the archived future.   We are aware of a need to step up to a more modern version of the software - first stage was done last month in which we updated from an ancient server to a much more modern one with current(ish) versions of operating systems, databases and open source languages.  Issues (that the members will not have seen!) still being flagged up as late as yesterday ... want to be sure we get those issues deal with before the next step.

[eightf48544]

I can't see any mention of Bourne End - High Wycombe have I missed it. There have been studies but nothing has come of them.

It really provides the missing link between North and South Bucks. Serving Oxford and the West Midlands from Wycombe,  Aylesbury and Milton Keynes (WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)), Bedford and the East Midlands.

It's a tricky one with buildings on the line of route and several level crossing to sort out

[Robin Summerhill]

I can't see any mention of Bourne End - High Wycombe have I missed it. There have been studies but nothing has come of them.

It really provides the missing link between North and South Bucks. Serving Oxford and the West Midlands from Wycombe,  Aylesbury and Milton Keynes (WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)), Bedford and the East Midlands.

It's a tricky one with buildings on the line of route and several level crossing to sort out

I wonder if this has been overtaken by events, given that there is now a direct service from Wycomne to Oxford via Bicester and the forthcoming east west ail link from Bletchley.

[IndustryInsider]

I'm not criticising those pushing for reopenings, but I can't be alone in thinking a 'Closure' database might be more relevant given the current worldwide crisis?

Hopefully all of the shovel ready and 'shovels already in ground' projects will go ahead, but I can't see much more happening whilst travel levels and the wider economy remains suppressed- and that will probably be for years.

_{[Attempt to fix character mapping issue - RS]}

[Red Squirrel]

I'm not criticising those pushing for reopenings, but I can't be alone in thinking a 'Closure' database might be more relevant given the current worldwide crisis?

Hopefully all of the shovel ready and 'shovels already in ground' projects will go ahead, but I can't see much more happening whilst travel levels and the wider economy remains suppressed- and that will probably be for years.

_{[Attempt to fix character mapping issue - RS]}

But there are two worldwide crises.

One is likely to start to abate over the next year or so, while the other is likely to slowly come to a head over the remainder of this century.

It may well be appropriate, for a period, to suspend some services and thin others out. It may well be necessary to rethink service patterns to emphasise regional travel rather than tidal flows into and out of London. It is very likely that leisure travel will become more important, and that there will be less of a peak.

But the alternative growth strategy, building more roads, is a bust. It doesn't work, and the people who advocate it know that. Sadly, they also know it's popular...

[TonyK]

I'm not criticising those pushing for reopenings, but I can't be alone in thinking a 'Closure' database might be more relevant given the current worldwide crisis?

Hopefully all of the shovel ready and 'shovels already in ground' projects will go ahead, but I can't see much more happening whilst travel levels and the wider economy remains suppressed- and that will probably be for years.

_{[Attempt to fix character mapping issue - RS]}

But there are two worldwide crises.

One is likely to start to abate over the next year or so, while the other is likely to slowly come to a head over the remainder of this century.

It may well be appropriate, for a period, to suspend some services and thin others out. It may well be necessary to rethink service patterns to emphasise regional travel rather than tidal flows into and out of London. It is very likely that leisure travel will become more important, and that there will be less of a peak.

But the alternative growth strategy, building more roads, is a bust. It doesn't work, and the people who advocate it know that. Sadly, they also know it's popular...

I agree that roads won't help in the long run. Numbers may be down because of the C-word, but I don't believe that they will stay that way. Planning for reopenings should continue on the basis that numbers will recover within 5 years, a very short time in railway project terms.

[TaplowGreen]

I'm not criticising those pushing for reopenings, but I can't be alone in thinking a 'Closure' database might be more relevant given the current worldwide crisis?

Hopefully all of the shovel ready and 'shovels already in ground' projects will go ahead, but I can't see much more happening whilst travel levels and the wider economy remains suppressed- and that will probably be for years.

_{[Attempt to fix character mapping issue - RS]}

But there are two worldwide crises.

One is likely to start to abate over the next year or so, while the other is likely to slowly come to a head over the remainder of this century.

It may well be appropriate, for a period, to suspend some services and thin others out. It may well be necessary to rethink service patterns to emphasise regional travel rather than tidal flows into and out of London. It is very likely that leisure travel will become more important, and that there will be less of a peak.

But the alternative growth strategy, building more roads, is a bust. It doesn't work, and the people who advocate it know that. Sadly, they also know it's popular...

I agree that roads won't help in the long run. Numbers may be down because of the C-word, but I don't believe that they will stay that way. Planning for reopenings should continue on the basis that numbers will recover within 5 years, a very short time in railway project terms.

Possibly the case for leisure travel, but it's unlikely that commuting will ever get back to the same numbers given the realisation by both Businesses and employees that long term/permanent remote working is entirely viable in many cases and saves both money and time whilst massively improving work/life balance.

The one or at most two day a week commuter is likely to be the model going forward.

[Red Squirrel]

I'm sure you are right, TG.

Can the railway, in the medium term, adjust to these changes? The answer, if we let it, must be yes.

Should the network be allowed to permanently shrink? Emphatically, no!